Stat Suggestion- Ward Fire

Feedback and Suggestions
1

I am seeing a lot of valid complaints about ward phases again. So I am here to offer a solution idea via an optional stat one can affix similar to (instant kill bellow X) but meant for ward

This stat would be called Ward Fire (but workshop any name you want)

This stat works on both enemies and on your character as it’s meant to combat ward entirely. The idea is not my own as I took it from titan quest with mana drain- but reworking it here for LE

When you hit an enemy, like with freeze you built up stacks of Ward Fire. Each hit has a 10% base to put on Ward fire, but you could affix it onto a weapon, gloves, ring, amulet, or boots to get it to 100%.

At 30 stacks on target it becomes Ward fire. Ward fire deals 10% of its normal damage on none Ward, and 30% to health states that are not Ward but similar.

Ward fire deals 350 damage per stack up to 30 stacks, and will automatically destroy Ward at X threshold. Default is 5% but could be scaled up with stats to 60% (same as endurance)

So Ward Fire has 3 components. The first is the stacks causing it to apply. The actual burn to ward + it’s execute, and a stat that scales the point for Ward blow up.

Likewise stats such as intellect, strength and dexterity would provide value to Ward Fire, at 10% effectiveness + (100- (100-Y)) where Y is player level. At lvl 100, you would get a automatic 100+ x + y +z as your base stat to Apply Ward Fire.

Enemies in a lvl 75 arena have an automatic 75% probability to apply Ward Fire per hit. You protect yourself with this with A mixture of stun resist, and %Ward Retention

The idea of this is that it allows you to entirely remove ward phases if you want to build for it, and also solves the Ward problem with player builds as Wardfire on enemies with a 60% threshold would make most Ward builds almost unreliable.

What do you all think thanks

2

It sounds like a convoluted idea for a simple problem - rework the boss ward mechanic so that it does what it should without hampering the low-DPS builds so much. @Kulze is absolutely right about that.

That will be better mechanically and even save development time, since your idea means lots of work.

3

We actually came up with a pretty good solution already on another thread a month ago or so. Just make it so the ward thresholds themselves have decay. If you have a low DPS build and take a certain time to reach a ward threshold, the threshold goes away.
So a low DPS build would just deal with HP and never with ward, a high DPS build would have to mow through both.

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4

Sure, I took part in that discussion, though I had a bit of a different idea.

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5

There were a few running around, but I believe the consensus was on the thresholds themselves decaying because that one used the current system and just needed tweaks.

I think you suggested some sort of tolerance system or something? Where bosses build up tolerance the more damage you deal? I’m not sure and I’m too lazy now to search it.

6

I would find such a solution incomplete as I don’t want to trust any decay or system to handle what I can control.

Ward fire is more active- yes it requires more work but it allows you to essentially create a build which ignores ward entirely.

Build power is my rule #1 and for that reason this solution is better

7

Which is something the devs clearly don’t want, so it won’t happen?

8

I suppose it’s debatable. Adding 3 stats to scale means your giving up potentially even more defensive layers or more offensive stats.

Seems a good option since I can then stack kill theshold, damage over time and Ward Fire to delete enemies at the cost of being squishy:

9

My suggestion was wound thresholds with pseudo-invulnerability. In every interval of X seconds, the boss can only lose Y% of maxHealth. You still can deal damage, but it won’t reduce the HP further, but you can leech from it fully.

By adjusting X and Y, the game devs can easily dictate how long a fight lasts at least.

IIRC, you wanted the devs to reduce the sum of stats in the game.

10

It’s not debatable. The whole point of DDR and now ward is because the devs don’t want ANYONE deleting bosses. They want players to experience the boss mechanics.
So a system to bypass it and allow you to delete bosses won’t happen, even if you have to sacrifice other stuff.

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11

Maybe at highest level of corruption sure. Will always be people who just like to be a walking ball of stone that never dies.

So those builds would still be viable.

12

That is a very boring way to look at it. Point of an arpg is to become powerful enough to not have to do mechanics if you want to do so.

Why glass cannon should be a thing.

13

Sure, that’s a valid opinion. But not the dev’s. They don’t want one-shot boss kills. You might not agree with that, but it’s what they want for their game.

So a system that fulfills their vision while not impacting low DPS builds has a chance of happening, whereas a system that lets you bypass all that doesn’t really have one.

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14

In theory you could still use this with low dps and not one shot bosses. Just need to get it to the point you could apply Ward fire 100% on each hit. That allows low damage to still do large damage to ward.

15

Legend has it that the devs met on Reddit to make an ARPG they would like to play.

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16

Making a game only you want to play seems like a really bad business decision but I suppose it’s fair. If they just wanted to make the game they enjoyed I can respect that

But I want the game I paid for to some extent too

17

Yeah, but you paid for LE, the game EHG makes. You did not commission EHG to make the game you want.

EHG has already incorporated a lot of player feedback, but there might be points where they stay adamant. If this is a wise business decision is something only time will tell.

I am an ARPG enjoyer who hates glasscannon insta-offscreen-deletion offence-is-the-best-defence meta. It’s the most boring shit to play, really. This is, of course, highly subjective. Some people enjoy auto-clickers, after all.

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18

They didn’t though. As Horus said, they already changed a bunch of things due to community feedback. But mostly, as can be seen by the amount of people that joined their kickstarter and early access, there are plenty of people that share the same vision that they do.

Not everyone will share it, but they don’t have to buy the game in that case.

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19

I was not here before rings of power. As far as I am aware no where was (we will add and change things so you can’t do what you want)

I like bullet time games like hades, and cuphead. But this is not what LE is. I have read and heard of a lot of complaints from people about the reduction in player agency.

Don’t remember who it was but someone here said you could at one point add 6 stats on to the gear. ARPGs are about gear. First and foremost. And then making fun impactful physic and monster AI.

Adding dodge roll, adding ward, nerfing things. These do not seem like decisions being done outside of just disagreeing with it.

20

Wah? I got summoned here I see? :stuck_out_tongue:

And yes, adjusting the mechanic as a baseline is what is needed, should’ve actually been done from the get-go.

Neither ward nor DR are a reasonable mechanic in the first place, stop-gap measures to avoid something which has no need to be avoided actually.

There’s 2 viable simple options, whichever EHG prefers:

  1. Nerf high dps builds substantially, adjust content accordingly.
  2. Buff low dps builds substantially, adjust bosses accordingly.

Both do the same, which is bringing content and bosses ‘in line with each other’, removing this disparity we see.

That fixes it without any of those wonky stuff like DR, Ward or whatever nonsense might be thought up.

Nah, stop-gap measure. Not enough.
Better then now.
Worse then DR with leech enabled in full.

It’s a 4/10 solution, ward + full leech without being DR adjusted is 8/10, neither is 10/10, as mentioned above.

You believe wrong, I was utterly against that :stuck_out_tongue: It’s a nonsensical approach still, above are better solutions.

The existence of boss-ward itself is spitting players into the face, so it’s understandable why people don’t want that in the first place.

Which was a vastly better solution then the nonsensical consensus reached, as I agreed with. Very good solution.

Which is a very nonsensical stance as that happens more with ward then before. So mission failed successfully.

Unobtainable goal with their current balancing, see above how to fix that.
I don’t say it often… but in this case the dev’s opinion hence is just simply wrong, unsustainable, infallible fail-state.

Hence the best solution while upholding this nonsense came from @HorusKBZ to date, everything else was in comparison fairly much garbage, including the ‘consensus’.

Switching DR to Ward is counter to what I paid into, actively counter to that actually.
Am I now allowed to get a refund? :stuck_out_tongue:

The goal was for a system not affecting low dps while hindering high DPS, your solution works, EHG’s solution is one of the worst I’ve seen happening to date.

As mentioned… mission successfully failed.

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