Smooth out gear progression - right now, it's a bit too easy to gear to a super good level, impossible to gear even close to your BiS

Sorry for the long title, the first bit made no sense on its own.

tldr: Right now, it’s easy to get to a very good setup extremely fast. However, acquiring your BiS-ish setup is mathematically impossible, in most cases. I believe the game can benefit a lot from smoothing out this curve.

First of all, I know that 90%+ of people are still probably finishing their Empowered Monoliths, if even that. I understand they operate on a different time curve, but I still think there’s a lot of room for improvement here, where both sides would benefit.

Right now, getting decent gear that practically takes your build there 70%+ of the way is too easy. The progression feels completely stagnant to people who are either pushing CR OR are playing a lot. We all got our BiS-ish setup about a week ago, if not more. I don’t have the data, but I’d wager that this slice of the community is an equally important pillar to your economics, so, smoothing out gear drops, so that 3/4LP items would be possible ~2-3 weeks into a Cycle, would be amazing. As it currently stands, you have to chase/farm for:

  1. The right Exalted.
    1.1 With the right T6/7 affixes.
  2. The right unique, with the right rolls.
  3. Hope it picks the affixes you want when you combine for a Legendary.

And it’s really not attainable. I’m nearly 140h into the game, and while I like it, I stopped, because getting even a 3 LP is impossible, even at high CR. With the added problem that the market doesn’t tell you exactly what sells and what doesn’t, it’s not exactly easy to farm gold, so that you can afford 40-50M for those pieces.

Smoothing out the progression would be nice! I strongly believe that, right now, if you dialed up drops by just some 20%, and made it so that 3/4LP gear is actually attainable, that’d be great. People wanna play alts. I believe 3 weeks to get to your BiS setup, without pushing ~1K CR, is more than enough to get enjoyment out of the game, and not feel like you’re locked into just one character - starting an alt should be a choice that came from joy, not “guess I can’t get any more loot on my main”. It’s important to note that I recognize the need for an “end” to a character. You don’t want to never finish it.

If the above is wrong, and data shows 90% of people are just fine, please consider buffing drop rates for high CR Monos. This way, the 90% isn’t affected.


You may need to reframe your goals/expectations. 3/4LP are extremely chase and should not be expected/built around…

This is the replies I was fearing the thread would get. I should’ve put it upfront. Kinda hate the fact that real, deep issues need to win a popularity contest, to be seen by the devs, only for those issues to come and bite you in the ass months later.

This needs to be addressed. More and more people are becoming aware of the issue, but it’ll take like a year+ until we’ll see changes to it, given the natural course of things.

I agree with you.
The amount of resistance felt to player growth/power early and mid-game is much to low (imo). And then exponentially flipped at the high end.

From everything developers have said in streams/podcasts/posts I am lead to believe this is their desire though. People say middle between D4 and POE, but I expect it’s closer to 30% away from D4 and 70% from POE. My reply was meant to imply it may be simpler to lower expectations and simply try to enjoy it for what it is - then move on once you’re at the top seeing nothing for dozens of hours.

It feels like that cause your progression just dies at lvl 50. I will attach my review on youtube as it address your point as well. I think deterministic loot would help, as well as a pity system on drops. As those would smooth out the progression as well.

I agree. I don’t agree with reserving this sentiment for strictly endgame BiS. I don’t feel like it’s easy early on at all. It felt like a slog for me all the way, maybe except sub 40-50. Forget LP3-4, getting the right base exalted with all (or even most) affixes right (especially when you want skill levels) - never happened to me despite 150+ hours. That’s right, 150 hours and I don’t have a single BiS exalted, not even close to a BiS.

All the way through with my 3 chars, I was always feeling like “nothing’s ever dropping.” I quit one of my characters (hammers paladin) before even empowering the monos because i simply could not drop anything even half decent, and the game felt like a slog.

There’s a guy from Grim Dawn, @WeAreViledNation they should add something like faction gear and build-universal guaranteed drops to help keep your character at a miimum level of usability in case nothing drops. There’s nothing like that in LE. Gambler is a trap. The guaranteed drops from mono bosses are too build specific. (In general the most uniques feel like trolling to me, like who’d ever use that shite over good random affixes.)

As for the very endgame BiS stuff, I kinda went into it thinking it’s best to assume it just doesn’t exist.

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Corruption is just a limitless endgame to see how much you can push, it’s not mandatory. They’ve made lots of way to target farm and get bonus drops and everything… maybe your filters are too precise. You don’t need BiS so if you are being too strict maybe that’s why you don’t find upgrades. Certain bases unlock later and you might have to make filters just to find those bases and craft a good item, instead of hoping they drop already with the stats you want. That’s what I do. You can get to lvl 100 without ever seeing 200 corruption. Slight change in an implicit isn’t necessarily going to be a huge difference in your build at that point.

I dont understand what is the issue you’re presenting.

You said:

You then say:

So what do you mean by BiS-ish setup? 3LP is way past BiS expectations? If so, why do you say:

Because maybe 3/4LP is a chase not intended for you to always attain? And should be a goal to chase when you actually want to grind?

Says who? If you play POE, how often do people deck themselves in full mirror tier gears before they quit the league? Do people think just because they havent achieve full mirror tier they cannot go on to make alts? Most people are happy with “good enough”.

Let me just make my position clear that I see 3/4LP with the correct stats as the equivalent of ultimate endgame mirror-tier chase items in POE and I dont think anyone should expect to be fully decked out in them in 2 - 3 weeks.

So, the equipment curve looks like the following, and I’ll say ‘it’s a very good curve’ beforehand:

Step 1:
Get gear which works to get you through the campaign. Which is piss-easy to say it simply.

Step 2:
Get gear which has the right affixes on it, meaning useful rares with 4 T5. Quite easily achievable.

Step 3:
Here it’s where it becomes a bit more iffy. Uniques which might be build defining, you need to put a bit of effort in. As well as 4 T5 rares with the perfect mix of affixes to optimize the outcome.

Step 4:
Improve to the best base item with those stats. Rather hard actually, we’re not at ‘exalted stage’ yet. But you might’ve dropped a lucky 1-2 pieces fitting for your build or one of your LP items along the line!

Step 5:
Improve to Exalted items, get the right base with the right mods on it.

Step 6:
Here is where the end-game progress is. Uniques with LP, 2 LP is the start for a ‘decent’ item mostly, build defining ones also suffice with 1 LP already, perfectly fine, great upgrade. Very easy to get an exalted of the base type with at least 1-2 useful stats.

Step 7:
Same, but with the ‘perfect’ stats for that LP level. Harsh… also doable, takes a decent chunk of time though!

Step 8:
3 LP items. You’re the 0,1% of players reaching that point. Be proud of it!

Step 9:
4 LP items with the perfect stats. The exalteds are an afterthought at that time, it’s getting the 4 LP in the first place. Night impossible for normal items, a miracle for rare ones. You’ve just created the ‘perfect’ character for your build. You’re done now. Every single slot not needing an experimental mod can be a unique of this sort.

So getting there? Well… you’re actually not supposed to reach that in any reasonable time. We’re talking about thousands of hours of played time here, optimizing your build to the extreme, pushing corruption as high as possible while sustaining clear speed steadily. You’ll go through tons of Uniques during that time and you’ll drop thousands of exalted items which could be a potential fit until you reach that.
Welcome to the ARPG genre!

It’s achievable, you’re hindered by acquisition rate and not by any sort of roadblock in making crafts impossible along the line… which is good. That’s what people are here for. Grinding, getting more loot, branching out into more builds, getting upgrade after upgrade for all 15 classes over time, storing the best gear for tens of not over a hundred of different builds.

That’s why people play it, to always have a goal beyond their current state, because even should you - despite all chances - manage to get this ridiciulous one build going… there’s dozens more to do the same.

I watched through your review fully.
A few general tips:
-Keeps things more concise, your intro takes 3 of those 28 minutes and says nearly nothing.
-Finish your thought processes fully before side-tracking into others. It’s frustrating for a viewer to listen to the start of a sentence before being de-railed into side-thoughts.
-Stop repeating yourself over and over. One time in the video, quick summary of major points at the end.
-Structure your videos properly beforehand.
-Don’t insult other people who’ve put much more work into things then you probably ever will in your whole lifetime.

I recommend making outlines for reviews beforehand so you get a more systematic approach.

As for the points spoken in the video itself (Wall of Text since lots of stuff being said):

Yes, numbers go ‘brrr’… that’s every big ARPG, though given you usually have content related to that respective power level which you try to reach… or actually beat in less time. That’ll probably be better in 1.1 since EHG said it’ll be a end-game update since that part is the weakest area of the game currently.

You’re also right that many play-styles are locked behind unique items. That’s intended. That what makes them ‘unique’, meaning they have combinations of stats on them usually not able to be acquired otherwise easily.

I can’t agree with the skill trees generally being ‘numbers go up’. Mechanical changes in ARPGs are very important. LE provides a myriad of them. From targeted to non-targeted, changing minions from damage dealers to buff-food for others and so on. Those are massive mechanical changes in terms of how a character plays.

‘You can’t step outside of the limitations of the class’
Absolutely agreed! It’s called ‘Archetype’ in a game like this. If you want to step out of your archetype… use another class! There’s 15 present in the game for a reason. No character is even supposed to be a ‘jack of all trades’, and EHG actively stated that it’s something they intentionally did, giving players a variety of playstyles which differ hence. Together they provides over a hundred viable ways to play the game.
You present it as a downside… so… how many different playstyles would you say are a viable number instead then? 250? 500? 1000? Over 9000???
It’s sadly a bit of a moot point.

‘What was the point?’
The enjoyment along the road… what else? It’s a game. What’s the point of building a huge city alone in Minecraft? What’s the point of playing games in the first place at all? Obviously players need incentive… but if ‘pushing your build farther’ is not enough of an incentive for you then looter ARPGs in general are actually a fairly bad fit I would argue there as soon as the campaign is over.

‘At level 40 you’re expected to go to monoliths’
Umh… no? Clearly… no?
Have you played through all 9 acts of the main story even? The campaign has a lot to offer.
Then yes… you go to monoliths! 1 of 3 end-game mechanics currently implemented.
You can adjust your play-style there. Pushing for levels? Arena, some enjoy that greatly. Simple and monotonous but pushing for the limit of your character is fun, upgrading gear to come back and see how far you’re able then is also quite fun.
Monoliths themselves… boss-pushing? Some of them are fairly interesting, especially in empowered monoliths before out-scaling their mechanics.
Dungeons? We got currently 3, sure… Lightless Arbour needs a rework given there’s no need for a gold sink anymore with MG available, albeit it’s a prime extra feature for CoF players still. Temporal Sanctum to make game changing but otherwise weak uniques into strong items, allowing for new ways to build. Soulfire Bastion if you need to target farm specific exalted types to achieve that in the first place.
So there’s already several different playstyles available for end-game. It’s not overwhelming… but more then ample for a 1.0 of a long-term life-service ARPG of that type.
But yes, end-game needs to be addressed, expanded on. It’s known to be the weakest part of the game because the repetition currently available is too monotonous and offers no pinnacle bosses of any sort to push towards.

As for why it feels bad for so many people at end game? I call a bit of BS on your argumentation on ‘systematic complexity’. They don’t ‘wrongly communicate’ that… it’s simply that end game lacks decisive goals to strive towards. The core playerbase of the genre don’t need a distinct goal to reach, ‘number go brrrrr’ is enough. But those which are not hardcore fans of the genre itself do, and that’s a lot of people which also enjoy the game. Simple as that.

‘Games that are out there for 20 years do that better’… yes, obviously. They have 15 extra years to do it better. Look at PoE 1.0 and tell me how that mess actually was. Torchlight infinite which has a broken UI not even allowing some items to be crafted since the button simply vanishes below the screen. D4 which has utterly obscure affixes on their items taking ages to figure out what the heck they even mean exactly with while also offering chase items which drop 1 time in 50000 play-hours… that’s your comparison base here only.

‘I throw acid flasks into fire and that reacts…’ and ‘lvl 20 character kills dude, he falls down, level 50 kills dude and he flies off’… this is an ARPG, not Magicka. What are your baseline expectations even? What are you comparing the game to actually? And Lost Ark is not a diablo style looter ARPG, it’s a MMO first and foremost.

‘The enemies don’t run away, they don’t call for help’
It’s… a… diablo-style… looter ARPG. It’s not Gears of War, The Last of Us or anything of the sorts. Hack’n’slay genre, not tactical combat style. If you give critique then move within the limits of the genre you’re doing it. That argument is an awful one.
Your comparison to a game which is similar to Dungeon Siege rather then Diablo is also unfitting. Those are utterly different flavors, Diablo and their similar games have always been about handling increasingly large hordes of enemies with overpowering methods. Imagine 150 enemies on the screen dodging and bombarding you when you use your skills. Not a fun experience at all. That’s why in Titan’s Quest they had things like reactive mobs while games Like PoE, Torchlight Infinite, Last Epoch, Diablo 4, Diablo 3 and Grim Dawn as a few examples don’t do that in general. And the moments when enemies running away are implemented they feel generally annoying rather then enjoyable.
Apples and Oranges here.

‘Sitting Animations’
Flavor around the mechanics, nice bonus, low priority. Nice to have though!
Would be fun in the future, more important things beforehand though.

‘They don’t have knockdown animations like for example in Diablo’
Do you actually know what a development nightmare that is? You’re talking about a multi-billion company which focuses primarily on graphical impact (and fucking that up during gameplay actually with their badly done hitboxes and effect visuals) spending millions for that.
EHG is a studio below 100 people, without a massive conglomerate backing them up behind.
If you go and play for example… ‘Chronicon’. Are you going to complain about missing animations and graphics there too? Because that’s made from not even 10 people and a fantastic game of the genre actually.

‘If you want to succeed on launch it’s stuff like the attention to details which keeps them’
No. Factually wrong. Sorry to say.
In a looter ARPG it’s first and foremost the mechanics.
Secondly comes the visual representation.
Third is the story immersion itself.
Fourth is other stuff. What you describe falls into that category. Nice to have, absolutely worthless if the other parts aren’t properly done.
That’s the issue of D4 and why D4 is failing. It’s the issue of Torchlight Infinite and why it’s failing in comparison.
The only actual competition of the genre is Path of Exile, the monolith of ARPGs of that style… and it has nothing of those miniscule unimportant things you describe and is wildly successful beyond most other games on the market.

‘It brings back people when the content updates’
Sitting down won’t bring me back.
Getting a great mechanic brings me back.
Pushing a new goal brings me back.
Getting a new way to craft items and empower my character brings me back.
All the other ‘shit’ is nice to have but essentially worthless if once more… the above mentioned parts aren’t fulfilled. As a reviewer that’s a major point to know, otherwise you’re going to IGN’s famous ‘Cuphead’ review level.

‘There is no real ending’
Yeah, because the story isn’t implemented in the finished state. Might’ve become clear when actually playing through the campaign. Must’ve missed it it seems.

‘There is no gameplay that really matters’
Yeah, because gaming doesn’t matter. What even is that supposed to mean? Meaningful goals I imagine? That’s your subjective part to handle. EHG can ease to find one with a clear-cut goal… but it’s definitely not a necessity. Will be done though.

‘At level 50 you’ve outgrown the numerical complexity’
Also a comment which is fairly ‘odd’ to say it mildly.
You explain what the numerical complexity is… but never came to a conclusion what entails those limits at all.
And even then, without making that clear… at level 50 you’re at the stage where you’re just ending the campaign. hence monoliths and the alternative timelines are still a vanity as you haven’t seen them yet. Which means bosses to push for and new things to explore. It’s not even content wise done and you’re already throwing the towel?

‘4 skills’
First of all, 5.
Not every class has a traversal skill, Spriggan for example doesn’t.
Not every class has a defensive skill.
Not every class has a generator… because that’s not needed for every class.
Lemme give an overview for my 2 main builds. Marksman Detonating arrow reworked into melee and Necromancer Wraithlord.
The wraithlord:
Summon the Wraithlord, traversal to pull my wraithlord with me as he’s static, a skill to majorly buff the wraithlord, a skill to buff my wraithlord and making him attack faster, a curse to make my enemies take more damage and another skill to buff my minions.
The Detonating Arrow Melee:
The detonating arrow melee attack, a traversal skill, shurikens which are never used and solely to extra damage for the traversal skill, a buff zone which if offensive and defensive together and a dummy to distract enemy fire towards it which I also barely ever need to use.

So no, it depends on the class you’re playing.
Also some builds have a big cooldown type of attack and a permanent non-cooldown attack, enforcing a different play-style which is more tactical then just positioning.

‘I quit my necromancer since I had 0 buttons to press’
No shit… that’s what a full minion build is supposed to do! That’s the epidome of being a minion build! You sit down, minions smash stuff.

‘Minimum 8-10 skills’
Suggest the controller layout for that.

‘As a old-school ARPG player’
Diablo 1 fan here, 2 buttons + tons of potions. Nothing else.

‘I don’t wanna play PoE because it’s only numerical complexity’
Yes, and LE is the same archetype… so maybe… just maybe it’s the wrong game for you then and not the fault of the game.

‘I dislike the fact that there’s no ‘x’ potion stuff’
I love that fact! It’s amazing!
It’s such a relief compared to the waterlogged sloshing adventurer running around otherwise which has to piss every 15 seconds because they chug down a barrel of repair-me and repower-me juice.
A relief to not having to play flask piano like in PoE.
A relief to not having to panic slam buttons like in Diablo 2 when stuff goes down and run back to refill them over and over.

‘Time to re-roll another character’
Yes, do that! You’re burnt out. That’s fine, absolutely fine.
If your feeling then doesn’t change… take into consideration that you didn’t play PoE because of what it is… LE is the same. You’re hence not the target audience.

‘I’m not like other content creators. I don’t fuck around, I don’t like having my time wasted’
First of all… get off your high horse. It’s disgusting what you said there. Insulting other content creators like this is something you shouldn’t even think about doing. There’s big scale content creators which work their asses of day and night to provide as objective as possible reviews, make their youtube videos and streams as fantastic from every standpoint they could ever do.
Maybe start doing that first before flinging something like that around the place, because the quality of your review is atrocious. You’re comparing games which have a completely different target audience, your video is not properly organized. You’re not reviewing you’re rambling instead. You’re stumbling over your own words, over your own arguments.
You’re wasting your viewers time there. So instead of this dual-morality maybe adhere to it yourself first. It’s a disgrace of you generalizing the whole scene like that.

‘I’m going to tell you what nobody else has!’
Oh, enlighten me, Gandalf the wise of the ARPG genre! Clearly you’ve been blessed with nigh endless wisdom!
Pure arrogance. Get that habit under control, it’ll ruin you from ever getting any substantial foot into making quality content. If it’s a hobby that you’re uploading reviews and making content… sure, fine. If you want to do it in any professional manner… cut that out.
And if you’re solely doing it as a hobby… then don’t think about criticizing those who work their asses off to get to that place, because there’s tons of upstanding content creators which don’t do any of the things you’ve talked about and still have provide a vastly different statement to the game then you do. You’re not ‘the one, the only’.

Yes, major issue, 100% agreed. The servers need work. Heavy work.

‘Profane Veil’
No, it’s not an iframe ability.
You dodge all attacks. that means hits. You still take DoT damage.
The node you’re talking about is called ‘Spirit Plate’ and makes it so your armor (not profane veil itself) is also working on DoTs. So yes, you’ll take damage. You just interpreted or read it wrong.
Rahyeh hence can damage you with his flames. All other attacks aren’t dangerous for you. The blasts from the middle he does are dangerous nonetheless since you’ll be too slow to avoid them most of the times, hence it’s not recommended to use profane veil there.

‘Some builds are just not viable’
Which one? I don’t know any build which can’t get to empowered monoliths and clears them on baseline corruption.
Channel abilities don’t make you die instantly, you use them tactically. Sounds like a ‘you’ problem there and not a game problem.

‘This game is all about movement’
Correct! Tactical positioning! You got the gist. That’s the essence of combat in LE.

‘Crit Avoidance and Dodge don’t scale correctly’
They do. Get into more detail and we can find the issue. Maybe you encountered an actual bug, but generally? They do. 100% crit avoidance does exactly that. 95% crit avoidance makes the crit chance of a mob 5% of what it otherwise has simply.

‘You can not play turret builds very effectively’
You can. There’s options available.

‘Quin said’
You know that he’s a streamer based onto ‘sensational’ and ‘shocking’ comments? He’s inciting people to be argumentative, his channel revolves around it. There’s barely any moment when you can take him seriously at all, and if you can you’ll know exactly that he’s in his ‘serious mode’ rather then the common way he behaves.
So saying that EHG ‘waits out until people quit with the server issue’ was just utterly nonsensical. The state simply is that they didn’t have the funds for major server structures yet, or not the professionals able to properly handle those. They fixed the major disconnection issues within days while their servers are upholding despite having more people playing on them as a 10 years old established game (Path of Exile) ever had. And they had far far worse server issues with a lot less people for longer periods of time.
You must be utterly blind to say ‘They haven’t done anything for the servers’ when the effects were that one second nobody can connect and the next suddenly 95% of people have not a single issue with connecting anymore.

‘They always had server issues’
Yeah, that was a year ago. How much money do you think they can throw at server stability as a mid-size company which has 95% of their income solely through the direct sale of the game? Not much I can tell you.

‘The game is fun for 20-30 hours, but I’ll not recommend it’
So… you had fun? But you don’t recommend it despite that?
What the fuck does that even mean? 30 hours for 40 bucks? You know how much that is in other areas? So yeah, obviously it’s a recommendation under normal circumstances, but it falls in line with the general ranting sadly.

Overall statement:
Besides many things you’ve got wrong in the first place you’re also insulting other people while rambling about the same topics repeatedly and making false comparisons.
I would give your review a 2/10 at best. It’s not bad enough to just click it away… but given the major issues you showed about yourself and your misconceptions about the game as a reviewer this is simply not any sort of acceptable quality.
It’s at best an opinions video, not a review, and not even that since you’ve gotten into a type of game you personally said you’re not going to enjoy and still dare to address issues from changing things of the core parts of the game is audacious at best.

EHG intentionaly implented items that are more unlikely to get then a win in a lottery. Those items could technicaly be removed because it’s just not fun. I’m not happy for anyone else who drops and item with 4 LP and posts about it on reddit. I’m just not happy they used their development time to implement items that are nearly to impossible to get.

I told this in the past and I’ll do it in the future untill we get into rates that show some common sense. 1 in a billion droprates are okay if you have some global event and one piece of those drops is needed. If you BiS is a 1 in a billion drop that’s just so over the top.

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