ahahaha goddammit. So if you were not playing World War Z, your response would have been faster, and i dindt have to answer! I blame that game then 
Going all out with fancy quotes and all that shit, i cant compete with that 
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Really? How did you work that out? It’s a bit disappointing if true. 
Thank you very much, both of you! Much obliged!!!
I think the most confusing point for me is that I can’t see my shield throw damage. That makes it so much harder to compare equipment and consider pros & cons.
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I have seen it beeing confirmed on discord. But you could say for spells, it’s not a big deal, since they have change staff/wands implicit to adaptive spell damage. But for throwing and melee, it’s a bit more difficult.
The only reason why you would convert, is because you want to scale the skill with a specific type of %increase dmg. Like increase void damage %.
But i dont know. Flat damage on skills, is quite low - is my understanding. Warpaths flat damage is 1, if i remember correctly, lightning blast flast damage is 16 or something. The reason why they are so low, is because the skills flat damage, does not scale with your lvl. Only trough the passives you take in the skill.
Yea i understand! It’s not super easy. Tooltips will come down the road though 
I, too, struggled a lot with gearing for and building a shield throw sentinel. While playing through the story this skill was superb, no matter what route I took. With endgame the damage fell off really quickly.
For me the spell version was a lot easier to build. And it looks really nice when you hammer out shieldthrow like a machine gun procing smite all over the screen.
If you ever decide to play a Forge Guard, there is another nasty way to make a shieldthrow build:
- Go for forge strike and take the nodes on the top right to increase proc chance of forged weapons. These are animated swords and axes that count as minions
- Go for Manifest Armor and take the route on the top/middle left to make the Armor spin when hit by your shield throw
- Then for shield throw you take the “ricochets to allies”
Now when your manifest armor is up and alive your ring of shields and the forged weapons both will be hit by shield throw and also perform the spin attack from your manifest armor
In Arena you can easily get 20+ forged weapon minions that all spin when you hit them with your shield throw. I changed the build before the 0.7.7 patch because of performance issues. But it really was very nice.
Maybe no option for you as a VK… but if you ever want to build a Forge Guard you would like it, I swear
When you go down the spell route with eruption an smite there’s a neat little mechanic that also is really nice and @marc7694 explained in one of his videos: Future Strike has the same chance to proc smite as a throwing attack, as long as it is applied by a throwing attack. This means you can get 2 smite procs with a single hit of shield throw. 1 of the shield hit and one from the future strike hit. This is all linked to your smite chance with throwing attacks idol.
And another “tip” for shield throw that a long time was not obvious to me: when you aim for a group of enemies you should always aim at the ones in the last row. The shield starts to ricochet when it hits the target you aimed at. All other enemies that stand in front of your target the shield flies through, does not ricochet but it hits them, applying procs and damage. This way you could hit a whole group of enemies before the shield begins to ricochet and may hit these enemies again with the ricochets.
Maybe this already was obvious because it’s in the skill description. But it took a while for me to notice. So just in case 
I saw Llama’s FG Shield Throw build. Even though FG has a number of throwing passives, it bothers me a little to see that it’s suggested you ignore the top tier passives in the FG tree. I think the VK at least offers some top tier options that mesh.
The VK passive Void Bolts adds throwing void dmg and spell void dmg. If I spec into this and add spell void dmg to Lava Burst (from Eruption), will Lava Burst then be able to trigger the inherent VK echo?
I see others speccing into Echo (Echoing Strikes) towards the top of the VK tree. How does Shield Throw trigger it? The tooltip for Echo says melee attacks and void spells. Shield Throw and Lava Burst are neither.
That’s because I wasn’t going for hit damage (as I mentioned above), I was using Shield Throw to apply Future Strikes. If you do want to go for hit damage then you, you would absolutely take the passive nodes that add flat damage. That said, it depends on whether you want to be able to spam Shield Throw, as from memory taking the nodes that remove the cooldown also reduce the damage.
As I mentioned above, Shield Throw can’t echo as it’s a Throwing Attack, which is a separate skill type to Melee & Spells (which can be echoed). If you were going Void Knight, you’d probably be using Devouring Orb as well which would be echoed (and can do very good damage).
It’s an interesting question regarding whether the Eruption node can be echoed & it’s not something I’ve tried. I’d suspect it probably wouldn’t be echoed since Lava Burst isn’t a spell you can cast directly. If you use Shield Throw to proc Smite I don’t think the Smite can be echoed as the player isn’t casting it directly.
My inexperience with VKs - I forgot about Devouring Orb. I guess all the Echo passives at the top of the tree are meant for that skill.
Since the wording for Echo says “void spell,” I think it only applies to, well, void spells - abilities with those tags. So Echo might actually be limited only to VK abilities. Which stinks unless those are your big focus.
Throwing really feels like the red-headed stepchild of Sentinels. FG has 3 nodes >= 25 that refer to throwing. VK has 0 nodes (which is even worse than it sounds since Echo doesn’t apply). Pal has 3 (the 2 bleed nodes & 1 crit node). Two of the FG nodes are oriented around crit (ugh) and the other one only triggers when you’re hit. Pal has one more node at the very top for fire damage - that looks interesting.
Now I’m tempted to retool my Pal (who was going Vengeance/block) or make another Pal (more likely) to try out a fire/ignite/bleed Shield Throw build (taking Molten Shield). That top tier Pal node (Light of Rahyeh) is +7% fire dmg per point. There’s Conviction at the very bottom for fire penetration. And I’d have the Pal Aura. I know endgame is mostly about survival, but all of those sound pretty convincing to me.
Not just that skill, but it is a very useful one.
No, from memory it also echoes (echos?) Smite.
Yeah, I’ve made a few posts about how they could change Throwing Attacks to give them more support.
Yeah, I’ve got an ignite Shield Throw Paladin & there’s so much ignite chance you can get (plus bleed converted to ignite with Maehlin’s Hubris) as well as the numerous uniques that support ignite.
Thanks for all the info! I think I have my new goal (and I already have 2 of those uniques - woot!).
If you take Molten Shield, does ignite get 2 rolls to apply - 1 on the shield throw and 1 more on Eruption? If true, that sounds like fun.
Yes, they count as separate hits (as I think I mentioned above), so everything is rolled twice, leech, chance to poison/ignite/etc, life on hit (Forge Guard’s Regenerator node).
Plus Shield Throw is a bit odd as it is quite happy to travel through mobs (hitting & Erupting on them) before it ricochets, so the actual amount of hits/AoE coverage you get is far higher than the number of ricochets.
Quick-ish update. I started another Sentinel (3rd one now) for shield throwing. Made this guy a Pal and I specced into shield throw fire dmg pretty early (around level 22-24 or so, right after finishing out the rapid fire shield throw section).
He feels MUCH better than the VK. I know part of it is that I’m choosing passives more intelligently (or at least with a better focus on my goal) and another part is that I’m geared more intelligently, but I really like how he’s performing compared to the VK at this same point (and with the same gear). Shield Throw is simply hitting much harder.
On top of this, I know how to gear this guy: (1) +% fire & +% ele (equally useful); (2) +% spell; and (3) +throw. Stat-wise, I prefer Attunement for dmg & resists. I figure I’ll probably snag some or all of the Attunement in the Pal tree (at least the bottom 8 points). I’m also taking the fire passives in Shield Throw to boost ignite % and fire dmg. Same with Aura.
Everything is clearer.
I haven’t decided yet whether or not to push block % on this guy. I’d swap +24% dmg for +5% block (Sentinel) and then I’d get more % block in the Pal tree and FG (very eventually). Not sure if it’s worth it since I’m not taking the ward on block in the Aura tree (or maybe I should?). Beyond getting Vit for resists and armor for phys, I have little idea what to do about defense and whether or not I should focus on block %. (I know about set GB, set ele res, and CS reduction at higher levels.)
One of the mastery bonuses Paladins get is increased physical & fire damage based on hp remaining, so that’s why Shield Throw is hitting harder.
If you’re going for % spell & attunement then that will only buff the AoE, not the initial hit (though if you get an idol that procs Smite on throwing hit they will benefit Smite as well).
Sooner or later you’ll get to the point where defences are more important than damage. Plus Shield Throw has a node that increases damage based on block chance. Block is good when you have a decent amount as blocked hits use the block protection/armour + your normal protection so you take quite a bit less damage from a blocked hit.
Aye, I’m aware that Attunement only buffs the Eruption part (and Smite - once I’m ready to run 1+ of those idols). The Pal tree doesn’t have straight %dmg, only stats, melee, and certain niche things (like bleed and fire). I wish the bottom left node for +melee fire dmg was melee AND thrown. That would round out the tree nicely - there’s plenty of melee stuff (particularly lower down) but little thrown in comparison.
I think you’ve convinced me to include block. I’ll respec my Sentinel nodes and figure it in moving forward. I guess I should then push for the block nodes in Aura? That ward on block one is insane!
Well,
- Retaliation (Sentinel) provides 5% damage per point (tripled if you’ve blocked in the last 5 seconds),
- Relentless gives +5% increased damage per point,
- Conviction gives 4% phys/fire damage per point,
- Prayer gives 7% per point if you’ve healed yourself or an ally recently (though it’s bugged & doesn’t proc if the heal would fully heal you) & you could combine that with Holy Symbol for a heal on block,
- Reverence of Duality gives 2% per point
- Light of Rahyeh gives 8% fire damage per point
- Redemption gives +7% per point if you have proc’d Penance recently (chance to receive bleeding when hit)
Plus there’s plenty on the Forge Guard:
- Fresh from the Forge adds flat phys & fire damage every 3 seconds
- Peltast gives increased throwing attack damage
- Prime Fighter gives strength & attunement
And Void Knight:
- Devouring Blade gives +10% damage if you’ve killed recently,
- Sorrow & Steel gives increased phys (& void) damage but probably not too useful for you if you’re converting to fire
- Umbral Attunement gives attunement & 4% damage per point,
- Void Bolts adds flat void throwing damage,
- Future Strikes is bonkers if you’re going Shield Throw as it gives up to 100% chance for every hit (Shield Throw’s initial hit plus Eruption) to proc an ailment that deals 50 void damage after 2 seconds & it’s at the same level as Devouring Orb which is awesome too.
Also, if you’re going block, you absolutely have to take Rallying Block on the Forge Guard tree, it gives 5 armour & protections (per point, up to 50) for 4 seconds per block.
I do like the ward (& life) on block from Holy Aura, I view them as a short-term protection that reduces the hp you loose on the next hit.
(Wow do I wish there was a talent calculator! Alt-tabbing in progress…)
Here’s what I’m thinking with each tier of Pal passives on its own line, counting upwards (bottom to top; just so I can keep them straight):
SENTINEL (20): Fearless 8/8, Gladiator 5/5, Relentless 2/8, Retaliation 5/5
PAL (57+):
0: Conviction 8/8. Honour 5/5
5: Valor 8/8, Holy Symbol ???/6
10: [None]
15: [None]
20: Prayer ???/10
25: Staunch Defender 1+/10
30: Shield Wall 4/4, Penance ???/10
35: Divine Essence ???/5
40: Redemption ???/7
45: Light of Rahyeh 12/12
FG (20+): Steel Aegis 8/8, Prime Fighter 2/5, Rallying Block 10/10, Smelter’s Might ???/10
VK (???): Devouring Blade 10/10, Umbral Attunement ???/10, Future Strike ???/10, Void Bolts ???/8
Penance might make sense with Maehlin’s Hubris gloves, but then Redemption doesn’t work (no more bleeds). I could go Penance + Redemption without the gloves, but then the bleeds will have less +dmg on them (none of my fire, ele, or spell dmg counts) and that’s 17 points for +49% dmg (ignoring the bleed dmg). I don’t like the sound of that.
I’m wondering if it isn’t better to go Holy Symbol 6/6 and Prayer 10/10. If I’m doing this, I could also go Divine Essence 5/5 since Holy Symbol will trigger it. That leaves me at a minimum of 59 in Pal with Staunch Defender at 1/10. (Not sure how bad that is.)
I also don’t like the idea of Void Bolts. Again, none of my fire or ele dmg will affect the +void dmg.
I feel like 20+ in FG is mandatory if I’m going the block route. As you say, Rallying Block 10/10.
I guess I’ll try this out and see what happens. I’m only up to level 28 so far and I’m going to finish the story before hitting Arena & Monolith. Gonna be a while. When I get there, I should probably do the FG points after Shield Wall and before finishing Prayer.
EDIT: Whoops! I missed the 3 sec cooldown on Holy Symbol. Prayer lasts 4 sec so maybe it doesn’t matter?
For Pennance/Redemption, it’s 17 points but you get 200% ignite chance (with the gloves) plus 49% increased damage, IMO it’s only worth it if you have the gloves since it’s all converted into ignite chance (same for Smelter’s Might).
Staunch defender’s benefit is increased the lower your block protection is, but don’t forget Faith Armour & Prayer Aegis for the defensive benefits (up to 40% crit avoidance, 40% armour and 70 hp & 10% glancing blow if you max both), while you can get all the benefits from gear, some points in there might make gearing easier.
I’d probably go with points in Void Knight later once you’re happy with your points in Paladin/Forge Guard.
Passive points are easy to respec, so don’t be too worried about trying stuff.
I’ve made some headway. I’m up to 45 or so and things are coming together. I think I’m 42 or 43 points into the Pal tree - not too far from Light of Rahyeh, though I may put a few points (4-6) in there and then swap to the FG 20 points before going back to finish Light. I don’t have the gloves yet, so I’m kind of floundering where to put points 40-45. I already have 3 in Faith Armor and I’m dubious about maxing it. I fear that’s the best option though since there really isn’t anything else that’s crucial. I tossed a few points into that 40 passive for +2% to dmg, healing, health, & mana but I kind of doubt that’s a good idea for 5 points. (Then again, the extra health and mana are nice.)
Btw, looking at your post about a Pal ignite build, I have a Torch of the Pontifex but I don’t think I’ll end up using it. The +dmg on it is only good for ignite (not Shield Throw or Eruption) and I’d miss the +block % from my shield.
Another btw, you were spot on about blocking. Even at this stage, I appreciate how much it fires and does for me.
And a question. The 5th usable skill. I have Shield Throw, Aura, Sigils of Hope (I hate spamming this), and Smite (proc from idols - not sure if I have to have it on my active skill bar). I’ve got an untalented Judgement for now. It’s a nice heal and it will proc Prayer for me if I don’t want to wait/watch for a block. (But that heal really is nice.) I don’t know if/when I’ll go into VK to pick up Volatile Reversal (and I really don’t want a second skill to spam). Do you have any suggestions?
EDIT: On my second Monolith, the gloves dropped. Yay! Now I’ve got Prayer at something like 7/10 and lots of room for more points. Penance is only 6/10 and Redemption is 5/10, I think. What’s the total number of points in the game? I wonder.
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