Shaman's mastery passives are just... boring when it comes to totems

Shaman thematically, is one of my favorite masteries. It was the first mastery I ever played, my first mastery I got to level 100 on, and ultimately, the first character I ever deleted. I have also brought Shaman back with the latest patch and am having fun with it for the most part, I think 0.8.4 brought some relatively good changes, particularly with Upheaval.

However, for a mastery in which the mastery skill is a totem and 2/3 of the master passive bonuses are totem related, there are a grand total of TWO mastery only passives that offensively augment totems.

Rune of Awe: +2 adaptive minion spell damage per point (including your own)

Eternal Storm: When you kill a frozen enemy (key word being you and not a totem), you randomly refresh the duration, heal said totem, and its damage is permanently increased by 25% per point.

Outside of that, a sizeable chunk of Shaman’s mastery tree is trying to make lightning strike work (creating two different avenues of generating lightning strikes and to buff the damage of them) while the rest are largely defensive/utility/stat modifier passives.

Now, I know I am leaving out two of the most offensively potent passives, Ascendant Circle and Storm Blade. These are fine passives, however, they only benefit the player and the only aspect that totems come into play on those is serving as the scaling component of those passives. Totems do not benefit in any other way outside of just existing to buff you.

The biggest aspect that Shaman fails at compared to his brother passives is that Druid and Beastmaster both expand upon and continue to build their mastery mechanics extremely well.

For Beastmaster, you have the introduction of two new Aspects (Lynx and Viper) along with the continue strengthening of Aspect of the Shark and the ability to possibly add one more companion or augment the one companion even further.

For Druid, this is done more so of the newly introduced Point Bonuses, but it also introduces some very strong buffs such as Primal Shifter as well as additional support for minion use that are heavily used in the various forms. But the point bonuses for Druid’s mastery passives is where that support really shines in terms of continue to strengthen the core mechanics of the mastery (form shifting and unlocking additional modifiers for those forms or minions).

Shaman seriously lacks that same support in terms of offensively strengthening mastery mechanics or unlocking new ways to play with totems. Because of this lack of support/interesting gameplay, there really isn’t a reason to play the Shaman at all for totem builds. In fact, I largely play only Druid or Beastmaster when it comes to totem builds. Why? Because outside of lightning damage, those two masteries currently have better tools (whether that be passives for Druid or Frenzy Totem access with Beastmaster) available to make effective totem builds. And what’s worst in my eyes, you are not missing out on anything special if you do opt for Druid or Beastmaster instead for their mastery passives.

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I agree here on the arguments from the OP! I came across exactly the same problem. I started a Shaman for totems (because I realy like the storm totem) and wanted to make a thorn/storm totem build only (so went full totem/minion) - the joyfull journey ended at lev 100 Monos. And then I ended up with a Druid build and went full thorn totem (Spriggan - which absolutly rocks and is atm my most fun char).
I can understand that this is maybe intentional and that the devs want to have it somehow seperrated - but imho I think totems belong together (storm/thorn) and there should be ways of building this.

I agree.
The devs said many times that Shaman needs and will receive some love. I hope this time comes quickly!

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I pray 0.8.5 is a shaman buff cycle.

I really really like storm totem, and really want to enjoy a pure totem playstyle. ive made it work kinda with upheavel storm crows and storm totem to create a mega juiced storm totem. But I would really like to see a world where we can have totems for the other thematic element of shaman which is cold. its not just the thunder, Shamans description speaks of the sea, the storm and the avalanche that shake the world man, give me some totem stuff for those themes.

Also I feel like upheaval totem got way over punished in how it works in the upheaval tree, making my totem have 50% less speed when its already so hard to get minion attack speed is just downright unplayable, which limits my options for getting more AoE clear on my totem :frowning:

Since there has been no word at all on the new classes such as Falconer and whatever the others are called im pretty certain development has just stopped at this point and also the fact other classes need to be worked due to never being touched

Im certain EHG could just delete every 3rd class from the game and roll them into the current trees and not much would change, since the bonuses are not building defining in most cases - Void Knight gets melee void damage and almost nobody plays melee VK that I know of

So in that case they would delete:

Forge Guard / Shaman / Runewhatever / Warlock / Falconer - dont need to ever exist since they have not been created or dont have a reason to exist since you can just roll the other passives into the other trees and not much would change

A totem node for Avalanche would be awesome.

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Forge Guard is fine and in a good place, shaman just needs some work but the foundation is there

Yeah the three fault lines comes with a hefty price tag with the increased mana cost multiplier on the skill node and the 50% less attack speed. I would have liked to see that split between the 3 and 5 fault lines. But to be fair, it’s not too hard to stack melee minion attack speed with idols. But then it just get hits with that overall more modifier that halves it. I’ve not taken those nodes at all outside of shatter shaman where Erupting Earth (5 fault lines) attack patter coincides with the thorn totem formation with Grove Mind and max totems

Shaman is a class that is trying to have a couple styles of play. Minions (Totems specifically) and spell caster. Maybe in the future they can have some support roles but druid seems more fit for that. Anyway, given that Shaman is spell caster and totems, maybe they should get a mastery level 35 skill that is a totem that you have to choose a path similar to Tempest Strike. Instead, the totem would choose the paths between your other spells (Tornado, Earthquake, Avalanche) and would use those.

I also think that Shamans top end tree is pretty bad. There are a bunch of melee specific nodes and a few, relatively bad, minion nodes. I would rather the nodes on the higher end focus on Elemental damage more, getting away from specifying melee or spell, and minion/totem nodes.

Shaman is also severely lacking in defensive nodes/identity. It has a couple Armour nodes. I could see Shaman being a class that could use Ward or Damage Dealt to Mana as another defensive option, although I would much prefer them not be able to easily go all in on those like the Mage or Acolyte classes.

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I’m not sure if forge guard is in a good place. It’s the least popular sentinel mastery. Most sentinel builds on the forum or YouTube are either void knight or paladin.

That really doesn’t mean its not in a good place…

I mean, it’s fine if it is slightly less popular than the other two masteries. But while searching for forge guard builds, I found that forge guard is WAY less popular. There’s got to be a reason for that.

The main reason is that we don’t really understand the logic of the passive tree. The Forge Guard seems to be oriented towards throwing (but not too much), two-handed weapons (but has bonuses with a shield) and minions (but with one only node).
But EHG already said multiple times that they are happy with the Forge Guard, so it should not change much.

I can’t say I’m happy with the minion aspect of forge guard. I might open a new feedback thread for forge guard since this thread is about shaman.

Interesting reading here: Last Epoch Build Statistics

Off topic from the original post but I think the issue with Forge Guard is that it seems like it could be good for various types of play so it confuses people and builds tend to be mediocre because of this… There are seriously good builds but they require more clever interactions and taking a non-Sentinel mindset when building… Take the Manifest Armour Shield Throw build… It is crazy powerful but relies on the way-out concept (for a typical sentinel build) of stacking stats purely for your Minion and giving yourself throwing skills, not to do damage, but to buff your minion by tagging it…

Forge Guard has lots of different options that actually do work well… its not just a normal type of class…

It lacks, for sure!

Forge Guard is a more defensive mastery & has had fewer shiny updates compared to Void Knight/Paladin so I’m not surprised that it’s less popular. If people have the choice between tanky & faster clear/bossing due to higher damage, they’ll usually take the latter. Especially when the Paladin is pretty tanky already.

I’m not sure we’re made a standpoint that we’re happy with it. Some might be, but we’re aware that it’s not in a great spot and it needs some changes.

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It was not an official statement, but that was something Mike said on stream and wrote as a response on Discord. And sure he said that Forge Guard still needs some changes/adjustments though.

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Yup, though that was before the VK/Pally changes.