Shaman Suggestions for S5 and beyond

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At some point (I Hope) the shaman will receive some significant attention, and its 5th skill. There has been some improvement this season, which is great. I have some suggestions for changes to talents, both skills and passives, as well as unique ideas that would breath some fresh air into the mastery.

Passive tree

  • “Shamanic Infusion” gives physical. lightning, and cold pen. Change the physical to fire. beastmaster and druid are the physical variants of primalist.

  • Shaman is heavily an Attunement class, which is defined by its mana properties. change one of the pinnacle talents to work like archmage in POE, where there is added lightning damage to skills based on max mana.

  • Triple the increased mana regen from “elemental shrines”, or maybe make it multiplicative

  • In the shaman only portion of the tree, add a mana on hit talent

  • In the shaman only portion of the tree, add a damage to mana before life talent.

Gathering storm:

  • Change the node for ranged storm bolts to work with staff, sceptres, and wands.
  • Add a node that makes storm stacks no longer automatically expend, this will help save them up for talents like spending them when you use a companion skill, the EQ talent when its a lightning spell, and the new idol that makes upheaval cast EQ if you have 30 stacks. I personally think this would greatly improve the interaction with these kinds of talents

Storm totem

  • Add a unique that allows you to summon more than one storm totem
  • Add a unique that converts the totem to a non totem skill. I had an idea a while ago to call it the lightning rod, and it just attaches to the player and becomes a walking lightning storm

Tornado

  • Make the multiplicative damage bonus while channeling double every X seconds you remain channeling. Currently, its doesn’t even come close to spamming tornado, and in general all non mage skills lack channeling support as most IMPACTFUL channel crafting shards are class locked to mage
  • Add a unique or a talent that converts the tornado to lightning, or add a unqiue that makes tornadoes alternate their elemental type. POE does this with tornado of elemental turbulence. It is a really cool idea to summon a fire, cold, and lightning tornado (one type per cast).

Earthquake

  • Add a talent that gets rid of the primary hit, and makes the skill just summon aftershocks. this could occur at once or over the course of X seconds
  • Add a unique that makes anytime you create an aftershock from any source, you instead create 2, but aftershocks deal X less damage

Maelstrom

  • Add a unique that makes the single max stack of maelstrom give the benefits that require you to have 6 stacks. I’m sure there could be a appropriate downside. Maelstrom as a damage skill itself is really weak and probably needs a rework, but i think leaning into the buffs it provides is the niche of that skill. The unique could have a side where its more effective with more stacks?

I could go on and on, but this is a fine place to stop. thanks for the updates to shaman in Season 4, looking forward to its final skill and some larger updates and new uniques hopefully!

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This one is pretty smart and would be kinda cool since if you have the “gain instead of spending” nodes you can sometimes consume 20 and end up actually only spending like 5

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Adding to this, to emphasize the issues with Shamanic Infusion passive node…

There have been many threads over the years about the lack of fire support for Shamans. But this one issue is egregious - there’s several different items in the game that are obviously a good fit for Shamans to convert elements into fire damage, Bhuldar’s Wrath, Maehlin’s Hubris, Rule of the Simoon. It would be easy to assume that these items were made specifically for Shamans to convert elements into fire damage because they convert bleed to ignite, or use tornadoes, or earthquake - all Shaman specific abilities (excluding bleed)… And there are more ways than just these 3 to convert to fire for Shamans…

But then in the first available passive nodes for Shaman, the one called Shamanic Infusion says: 1% Penetration per point and the icon for this node includes RED FIRE. But then in the fine print it specifies that it only increases penetration for physical, cold and lightning. Wut. Why is it limited to 2/3 elements plus physical? That’s such an odd limitation. I’d be really interested to understand how 8% extra fire pen makes Shaman too OP to ever be allowed such a passive node … Clearly the issue isn’t “thematic” because of all the items and more that I just listed. But ultimately, it’s a confusing and contradictory icon/description and it’s unintuitive. Especially for new players I imagine. I don’t mean to be harsh but just calling this out.

It would be great if this just worked for all elemental damage and physical. I can see why void/necrotic aren’t included … But I’m just confused why this arbitrary limitation is put on Shaman when there’s clearly items designed for it to convert damage types to fire.

Would love to see this one node opened up just slightly to at least include fire pen please and thanks.

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Tornado & Earthquake aren’t Shaman specific, all Primalists can put sufficient points into Shaman to grab those skills.

The icon is blue, you must be thinking of a different passive.

Fire isn’t a core element/damage type for Shaman which is why there isn’t any support for it. The core/thematic elements for Shaman are phys, cold & lightning. The devs do, however like to mix things up & create some “off label” conversions which they generally put on uniques.

Because those are the main damage elements for Shaman.

It’s not.

It’s not an arbitrary limitation. It’s like adding void pen to the sorcerer because one unique adds a void conversion to Volcanic Orb & another unique adds % increased void damage per fire aura.

I’m not saying it’s an unreasonable request, but when you think of weather, fire tends not to be an element you associate with it.

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Hey @Llama8 thanks but here is an in-game screenshot image of the penetration icon in the passive node, it’s clearly got fire in it: https://imgur.com/a/c79lLXQ

The passive node itself icon is blue yes, and in the info window the attunement icon is blue, but the penetration icon is the elemental colors fire, lightning, cold. Which is why I’ve said that I find this node confusing because it implies all damage by the blanket term “penetration” and then it shows elemental colors in the icon, but then it says in the fine print that basically … it covers everything except fire but also add physical. Do you understand my confusion and why I think new players would have a harder time with this?

The reason I believe this is an arbitrary limitation is because EHG keeps releasing new “convert to fire” items for Shamans but then limits fire pen on the one passive node that looks like it should cover fire pen by it’s iconography and initial “Penetration” term. I can read the fine print. But Tornado and Earthquake are acquired by putting passive points into the Shaman tree… It’s not a stretch to say that they are therefore shaman skills.

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I don’t think that’s fire. I think that’s meant to represent bleed, which is the best way to represent physical with such a small space.

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This take seems disingenuous. These are shaman skills. No they are not limited to shaman, but that doesn’t mean they arent shaman skills. There is a difference. They have been deemed (by EHG) as part of the shaman fantasy.

Im not trying to pick on you but your ignoring the point of the comment. He is saying fire SHOULD be part of “elemental” arsenal for shaman. Not that it is. Then he provided evidence to that fact. This is however an opinion of course. That being said, refer back to the fact that earthquake and tornado ARE shaman skills. If they arent, then put them in the general primalist tree.

Thematically speaking, shaman should be leaning into lightning fire and cold, while earth magic is literally what a druid is. Puting earth into shaman while druid exists seems whack, but it is their game.

Shaman isnt a master of weather. Its a master of elements, which includes fire. Druid would be closer to a master of weather.

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@DJSamhein I zoomed in, it’s clearly flames not drops of blood or bleed https://imgur.com/a/FStTeun

Thus far orange has not been a color featured in any bleed symbology that I’m aware of, only deep blood red colors have been used in the game for bleed.

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Sadly because I’m in the UK I’m not allowed to see that, I’ll have to have a look in-game after work, assuming I remember.

I think that’s a bit of a reach. There’s fire conversion items for Tornado/Earthquake which are fairly old items (pre-0.9 I think?), then they added Rahyeh’s Embrace this league & that only converts your Spriggans/Storm Crows. They’ve added just as many lightning conversion items (1, Natural Wrath) as they have fire recently.

Fair, but to me, I view “Shaman specific” (the term he used) as the ones that only a Shaman can take (Avalanche & Storm totem). I did say they were Shaman skills, just not, IMO, Shaman specific.

Is is a darker red? 'Cause I think that’s the colour they tend to use for physical/blood spells on the Acolyte.

I know & for thematic reasons I disagree, the Shaman is a nature/weather caster (phys, cold, lightning) not an elemental caster like the Mage. That’s the difference. Like the Acolyte is an undead/death/blood caster so specialises in phys/necrotic/poison (with fire added for the Warlock) rather than all of the “unnatural” necrotic, poison & void.

No, he provided evidence to support his opinion/suggestion & I respect that. I also never said that I thought he was saying that fire is currently supported/included, I was giving the rational for why it’s generally not & the why it is on certain uniques.

Why fire though? When does it ever rain fire? Volcanos are related to fire but the Shaman doesn’t have a volcano skill. Also, the Druid is the shapeshifter archetype, not earth magic in LE, but if he were then yes, I’d probably agree, but tbf, the fluff text does reference/imply “earth stuff”, which is weird when he has 3 shapeshifting skills, 1 summon & 1 plant skill. Though I think the phys aspect of the Shaman spells is because of the physical force tornados/earthquakes involve.

Not in LE, both from the mastery fluff text or the skills provided. I’m not disagreeing that they aren’t in other IP/universes nor that they possibly shouldn’t be, I’m just giving the rationale for what & why they are the way they are at the moment.

I’m not entirely sure that it would be good if the Shaman was an elemental caster as that’s what the Mage is. How would you make sure that they’re different? Would the fluff text & the specifics of the skills (animations, effects, skill tree, etc) be sufficient to differentiate 3 elemental caster masteries (Sorc, Runemaster & Shaman)?

Still can’t see it 'cause imgur in the UK but fair enough.

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Yeah, that’s totally a fire-y colour rather than a bleed-y colour… They’ll have re-used the asset.

That said if we’re making the argument about the colours in the icon matching the elements affected, IMO, the bottom right segment is clearly purple (void) rather than whatever colour they use for lightning.

Not that I’d want to be pedantic & muddy the waters.
No, I’d never do that…

You’re also getting Attunement from that passive, not +1-8 to the Mage skill Focus…

Edit: TBF, I’m being a fucking idiot, if you click/tap on the passive in LETools it brings up the exact same tooltip with icons, etc. Maybe I should have tried that? :person_shrugging:

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I think you described it perfectly in an earlier response, being Volcanic. Something volcanic themed seems highly likely as shamans final skill, and would fit the bill nicely. Mage having fire abilities doesn’t mean shaman cant and vice versa. These classes have a lot of overlap, but the elemental type of damage isnt what should be concernings, its how the damage is presented. As an example, Have a fire tornado or cold tornado doesnt take aware from the mage fire and cold spells, because its a tornado. Its just a damage archetype. If they converted tornado into cold and then made it a missile skill, then yes it would encroach on the class fantasy for mage. Fire damage is part of nature as much as it is for an wizard.

In my preview (which is worthless) Primalist is the master of nature, not shaman specifically. When you break that down, you have beastmaster and druid, which really cover that physical aspect of nature. Then theres shaman, which would cover the elemental aspect of nature. I guess the same way you look at shaman vs mage “how do you make them different”, i look at shaman vs druid and beastmaster. As it stands right now, Earthquake feels more like a beastmaster/druid skill because shaman has such poor synergy with physical and attack. They are hybrid attack/spell, but still really poor physical support. thats what makes Earthquake the open-to-all skill for primalist though. Tornado is also physical, but i think it should be lightning, or split like avalanche is.

Shaman is a hot mess and all over the place in LE. It would be nice to see the class have a clear direction and some consistency.

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