There will undoubtedly be really cool uses for the new primordial unique ring that lets you complete a set with it, letting you use some unique or weapon that you otherwise couldn’t fit in. That’s all fine and dandy. But that’s not what this thread is for. I want to know the theoretical most complete sets you could shove into one build with this ring to get the MAXIMUM BONUS! Bonus points if the build is even vaguely sensible, but for now I’ll take just figuring out the upper limit on what we can achieve.
To this end, I tried making a spreadsheet that lists off all the sets and the slots they occupy in hopes that I’d be able to do something with that. Then I realized I have no idea how to actually make good use of a spreadsheet like this. So I leave this here for anyone who knows how to do spreadsheets better to make something of this:
I’m gonna keep messing around with it to see what I can figure out, but maybe someone will figure something out in the mean time.
Most that can be fit is 7 sets. You can switch some around, but you can’t go over 7 because of overlaps. As a bonus, I made it so it can be used by any class. https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BO6pMmmQ
There’s a channel called FrozenSentinel on YouTube. Leave it to him, he’s a master at these tables. I recommend checking out his channel, as he shares these tables publicly, and you might learn something new. So far, he hasn’t released anything like this… so far.
Cool. The class requirement stuff is kind of weirdly inconsistent. Only a handful of sets have a class requirement despite some of them really obviously only being useful for one class. I guess it works out for our purposes though.
The only gear that has class requirements are helmets, relics and body armor. But, like uniques, not all of these have a class requirement attached to them (unlike non-unique/set gear which always does).
That means that sets that don’t even use these 3 slots can’t have a class requirement with the current system.
Of course they could always change it so the set itself has the requirement, but why bother when they’re clearly already “filtered” by usefulness?
At least this way some players will sometimes come up with surprising out of the box uses for them (although that’s often when they also break the game).
This could likely reach a bit higher in terms of real potential, if you work with Reforged set items instead of the normal ones (but obviously, the normal ones work best for just calcing how many you can stack).
I am kinda feeling like this ring, which seems to be ideally placed in a pretty-accessible level range, could be a wild build-enabler, for the creative crafters.
For example the shattered lance set was always limited by its set one-handed weapon. Thanks to this ring, you can now use twohanders, and most importantly, use legendary weapons.
Yeah, it would obviously only work with most items being set affixes since you can have better items for most of them that way. I did it like that just to make it easier to make a count.
I think currently the ring will only be used to either allow you to use a unique with a set which wasn’t possible before. There are very few sets that actually synergize for now.
Yeah, the synergy is the issue. I would’ve hoped for EHG to at least provide 1-2 sets together with that ring rather then it alone. It’s a great concept after all and just one of the things the game needs… but without anything to play off of directly it’s just a bit… out of place.
I feel like they’d need to do a big dump of several sets at once just so that it wouldn’t be obvious what the combo would be. I’d like it if they took one patch to rework the existing sets and add like 4+ new ones all at once.
Yeah. The only sets that actually synergize are Boardman’s with Ferebor’s. You could add a general purpose to it, like Last Bear, for extra value, but those 2 are the only ones that actually work together to complement totems.
So synergy-wise the end-result would be a +3 skills ring with 15 all attributes and 15 all res best-case.
Hrmm… that’s plainly spoken not all too good given it takes away the primordial slot. The 50% non unique idol upgrade for %health or for ward retention would likely be better there, albeit with ward you would want the chest one focused on ward gen instead. The ring slot is highly contested after all.
Though using that setup could potentially be useful with a single red ring for the 15 all attribute one, the all res is definitely worse. +3 skills is strong but comes at the cost of the primordial slot
But overall it would also mean enforcing to stay with exalted items rather then uniques, I don’t know how viable that option is, not only for acquisition but also for loosing out on the functionality those provide in the respective slots. For totems it might make a difference… but otherwise it’s really really hard pressed to provide any upside rather then a detriment I think.
Overall I think it simply falls short of items like ‘Blossom of Immortal Stone’, ‘Architect of Astral Bonds’, ‘Mask of Indifference’ or ‘Reliquiary Nest’. They directly contend with the ring after all.
As long as it allows fun new builds that weren’t possible before, I think it has fulfilled it’s objective. Not every new item has to be BiS. Being a build enabler is enough to have fun with it as well.
After all, it’s not any different from any build enabling relic competing with Shattered Worlds or Nihilis in 1.2. If you had a build enabling unique in those slots, you knew you wouldn’t take those items. But if the build was still fun, you’d still do it.
Much like forged weapons (and even other minion builds) used 2 phantom grips in spite of red rings existing.
The point is that it needs to at least have a decently obvious use-case to make a general ‘fun new build’. Which is why I said I wished that EHG would’ve had the foresight to at least implement synergizing sets with it so it becomes viable for some build rather then 200c fodder builds that have even trouble challenging normal Aberroth.
And the second point is that it takes the same slot as vastly stronger items you can acquire at the same time instead.
It’s not like Nihilis or Shattered Worlds at all. The weaver based relics for example provide a immediate +1 skill level for your class at the cost of RNG for the other Affixes, but the basis is quite strong by that alone. So you use em.
The build enabling ones are a step above then those even since they synergize well, and aren’t harder to acquire either, so it’s varied in what your build needs.
The difference to the ring is that the ring is neither in a position where it makes sense nor with a distinct upside that makes it something to directly strive for. It’s also not a leveling unique since it requires level 42.
So what exactly is it supposed to unlock, provide for a player? It’s not like some in-depth master of buildcraft will come along to suddenly provide a ‘eureka’ moment to the community as sets are quite limited and to even suggest using the ring we need at least 2 full set effects for it. That mandates the reduction of uniques used instead and mandates also the power for those set Affixes to make up for the loss of space.
That’s what it means to be ‘build enabling’. It either allows a mechanic otherwise not possible (which hence creates a build) or it makes formerly un-viable options viable. Now my question is: Does it do that? And if so… where?
Otherwise argumenting it’s ‘build enabling’ is not a thing. It’s pure potential - which is good - but unrealized potential is simply worthless sadly. ‘Hurray, we got a great new item! The idea is fantastic! So… but where to actually use it?’
It already does. For example, it allows you to use any unique weapon (like Clotho’s) with the Sunforged Set, which you couldn’t before. This will open up (and likely buff by a lot) forged weapons builds.
Likewise, you can now use Vilatria’s without using the slot on a 2H staff. Mana guide builds, or other lightning builds, can now use it with a single helmet sealed affix. And helmets are the slot that is mostly exalted in many builds.
So there are several ways this alone can improve several builds while allowing new build variations. All the sets that use a weapon alone will now allow you to combine it with a unique weapon, which wasn’t possible before. Lots of new stuff can come from that.
One just needs to study the options to come up with them.
An item doesn’t have to be “This item is for this specific build, go do that”. It can simply be “This item can allow for some exciting new possibilities which you’ll have to come up with”.
Personally, I’m convinced that the players (the jungroans of the world, if you will) will find broken interactions with it before too long.
Especially when you consider that when sets were designed they were balanced around them having to occupy the slot, so they would compete directly. When the devs made a new unique body armor, they wouldn’t have to worry about whether or not that would be broken with Set X because Set X uses that slot. Except now it doesn’t and players will come up with ways to break that.
The weapon pairing I’m thinking of is getting to use a Morditas’ Reach with the Shattered Lance set. So much more flat melee cold than the 1h swords could have and the other stats on it are actually useful for the build too. Leech, Cold Pen, Melee Crit, and the str obviously goes well with the Last Bear set.
I’m not sure if/when I’d run the build though. I already spent most of my time last season on my Shattered Lance Paladin. Doing it again but with a better version of the build is fine, but not exciting when there’s other stuff to do.
EDIT: Another thought is to go the other way around. You can keep the weapon and replace the relic with a Vessel of Strife to turn it into a ward build lol. I don’t know if there’s an actual reason to do that in practice though. Maybe you go DW set sword + Cleaver Solution + Last Bear + 1 Red Ring to get str stacking becomes armor, ward retention, and ward/sec? Is that better than just having HP and HP regen? Maybe not. idk.
So you’re fine giving up the most powerful defensive slot for a exalted or set-item? Which is the chestpiece?
Not to speak of avoiding to use ‘Primal Cadence’ instead, which does provide you with a AoE overkill for forged weapons + up to 9% crit chance, which is massive. With quite powerful melee abilities on top inherently. 1 LP on that thing (1 in 5) providing you with more direct melee damage then nigh any other weapon in the game has the ability for. Not to speak that it does cause crit multi for strength, with the forged weapon build being a strength stacking character anyway.
Vilatra is interesting to detach it from Meteor, yes, for a int-stacker definitely a potential use-case actually. That is a realistic one at least. At the cost of your helmet slot. The other way around for a meteor build would make more sense, freeing up the helmet slot instead. The issue with that one is that a meteor build nigh always uses a boatload of mana, which makes it a prime way for the mana ward conversion method. Hence instead ‘Architects of Astral Blood’ is a better choice once again for the primordial slot. It’s the strongest existing reliable ward generator and synergizes supremely well with the meteor build, especially since it inherently has a boatload of health already on it, allowing to nonetheless mana-stack with it in usage and not scuff yourself by reducing the max cap on ward substantially. The all attribute also makes is extremely well versed since it helps with the hybrid build-style in that case.
And basically never did from the get-go, designed before LP existed and hence having to compete with a unique+exalted on top instead nowadays while never having been reworked.
@Darthelmet provides a better solution then those definitely, the vessel of strife option is absolutely one which is interesting. That might actually be one reasonable use-case without any severe downsides as it opens up a complete mechanic otherwise not viable.
The build is already using an exalted chest and helmet. I wouldn’t be giving up anything, other than simply adding the set affix as sealed.
The build variants that use a unique chest actually use Mantle of the Pale Ox now.
So yeah, I’m fine with it.
I’m sure players will find ways to break it further. Like I said, neither uniques nor sets were made taking into account that you could use both simultaneously for the same slot, which you now can by replacing that slot with the ring.
I can’t be bothered going to look for it, but it’s not hard to just look at the existing builds where the set bonus would be nice, but the unique was simply too good to replace. Now those builds can have both. Especially with set affixes.
This without going into new ways items will be able to interact because of this. I’m sure plenty of new builds will arise from this just with the items we currently have. let alone when they add more sets again.
