Rune of Corruption and Idol Altars | Coming to Last Epoch March 26

News
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  • Item corruption:
    • the mechanic really just looks like it is designed for damage control in regards to how uniques with LP can be bricked whilst still being usable. whereas corrupted items take bricking to a whole new level of hubris that makes items affected outright unusable, which to an untrained traveler, can result in a setback that may reduce a travelers capability of taking on higher difficulty content (i.e. empowered monoliths & higher echo corruption modifiers.) unless using such mechanics on spare items that you know they can afford to be lost in the process. (i.e. undesired stats.) for all I know, item corruption may as well just be a rune of destruction on Roids.
      (& while I could suggest giving the LP of every item in the game another gander in regards to lowering the ceiling a bit, i.e. allowing items with very low chance of LP, to have a better chance of gaining more LP in the long run to offset the destructive potential of the upcoming corruption runes in question, It is a very big stretch worth pondering.)
  • Corrupted attributes:
    • I believe these need to be sent back to the workshop as, much like a screen door on a submarine, they are useless & I cannot really see any viability with them in any capacity.

Idol Altars:

  • I may Need additional context post-SO (shattered omens acronym) but may see some viability with the Idol Altars. the omen idols on the other hand are the ones in need of introspective context in order to know just how good they may be so i’ll be tempering my patience & expectations.

on another note:

  • It may also depend on where said idol altars are being “Gatekept” because, if it is anything like Uberroth gatekeeping the shattered worlds amulet, outside of being purchasable from the merchant’s guild faction, may be the defining factor as to whether a good chunk of LE’s playerbase can be incentivised to give it a fair go, given the number of overall existing mechanics in place throughout the games entirety.

better question: why keep players from being able to engage with such activities? I can partly understand uberroth being a pinnacle activity & the penultimate test for almost any buildcrafter out there, but at the same time, does EHG actually want more people to engage with it? or less? maybe even if it is just in the middle.
Either way, the more people that can actually enjoy playing last epoch, the better, Right?

this right here, is a pain point that should be taken into consideration so as to avoid the mistake of bloating the game with too many mechanics as it may overload the minds of those who keep things pragmatic on top of creating unseen problems which could go under the radar.

& yet you simultaneously offer no solutions to your “problem” with dual wielding?

one Plausible solution would be replacing the 8% more damage taken (multiplicative with other modifiers) with “20-30% less Armor” (Multiplicative with other modifiers.) as an alternative since it would mean making increases to armor a more meaningful choice since it plays into a few factors, like making armor shred debuffs from enemies more of a penalty than before since less armor requires less stacks of armor shred to completely put travelers in the red zone, especially for non physical attacks.

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You know with trex and frogs and abom changes in s3 and wraith lord in 1.1 and falcon introduction in 1.0 and the body armour unique that buffs up the spriggan and storm crows in s4 and the e-quake bear melting uber in s3 and the amount of minion based mtx in s3 and the changes to old minion based uniques in S4 that get new stats like minion cast speed on uni spell minion gloves or the minion staff that buffed for fire minions. Or the bees shown on s4 corrupted idols. Or the corrupted affixes shown on dragon tooth sword that adds another spot for more flat to minions. Or the fact that new idol alter things give idols buff and the amount of existing idols that are all about minion and then you combine that with s3 unique idol that can give idols up to 60% increased effectedness among other things. And you say summoners get what now or don’t get ??? Unless I’m mistaken by your meaning of summoner being related to minion stuff. And oh yeah let’s not forget that this is only day two of hype week and it’s only a taste of all what’s to come.

But I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you’re a newer player to this game and have limited knowledge. Maybe I’m off base and summoner means something else to you. You may have misread something or pigeon holed on one aspect and missed another. Or maybe you only play one specific (maybe niece build) and it’s not that’s there’s nothing for summoners. And it would be more accurate to say that so far what you have read there is nothing for your desired build. If this last part seems sarcastic do note I’m not trying to be. And I am trying to not just flame you and give a venue to side with you or give you an out to re assess your stance.

Just an edit note, I know u mentioned amulets specifically as part of message I replied to. If summoner applies to minions and issue lies with attribute conversions not applying to minions that’s incorrect. Falconer has a move called arieal assault a minion movement skill and if you know about it the more u spam it the better.

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Patch notes WHEN?

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You might want to adjust the post. There still seems to be some confusion out there, potentially because the total max is in parantheses before “per point”

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Day 5, I guess

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Friday, as already announced

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Nice , keep going , I’m starting to get hyped.
Though I may lose focus with amount of shiz I now hafta watch for )

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I hope we get more interesting mechanics later in the game at some point.
I am writing this, because I see no change in the general direction the seasons are taking.

Most of the fun for me lies in building a character, leveling up to see it slowly come to live, and getting the key uniques for the build to see its full (gameplay) potential.
At the moment, I can usually do all of that in SCF without even hitting empowered monos, with maybe a tiny bit of CoF favour farming, depending on drop and nemesis luck.

I just don’t have any incentive to play further, because after that, everything is just stat boosting without significant changes to the build, gameplay, or feel of the character.
Pinnacle bosses have generic stat boost items, farming higher LP uniques or better exalteds is also just stat boosting, pretty much all the endgame mechanics evolve around finding “more of the same, but better”. There is nothing new that has visible impact on gameplay, because leveling and skill progression is mostly complete at the end of the campaign, and almost all items with interesting effects are really easy to obtain.

I have currently 1987 hours in the game, made over 100 different builds, and only once played past 200 corruption to kill (normal) Aberroth. Then immediately quit the character, because I already know that none of his drops significantly change my build and I essentially considered the character “complete”, I just wanted to at least do it once for the lulz.

I still come up with a new build now and then, because the variety is actually huge. But I rarely play a character more than 10-15 hours, because that’s how long it takes me to complete the campaign, get all skills, and find most of the build defining uniques.
That’s my #1 issue with LE, and unfortunately once again I see nothing here that changes that.
What I really want for the game is meaningful changes to the gameplay that occur in the lategame, not just during leveling.

Two examples of the type of content I really want to see:

  1. A lategame faction or similar mechanic, that with a lot of grind gives an option to change or buffs skills directly in a noticable way (more projectiles, pierce, AoE, element conversions, skills triggering skills).
    I am guessing Skill gems will work that way, but I am worried it is once again mostly an earlier leveling thing, instead of long-term endgame progression.

  2. More powerful endgame items that are actually interesting rather than “+skills and resis”. A lot of the primordial uniques were a step in the right direction, but most of them are just buyable and therefore again super easy and early to obtain.
    Example: Something like Bane of Winter, but instead of Voidwinter Bolts we are straight up casting Black Holes on Striking, scaling with its full skill tree.
    If I kill a Pinnacle Boss, I would be infinitely more excited to find this kind of item, even if it doesn’t fit my build at all, rather than a generic one that kinda works for all builds equally.

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This is very good news.
I wish I could see it soon.

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I did !!! Remove the increase damage taken for dual wielding. /fixed

Also let us use any combination of 1 hand weapons. I thought that was clear and obvious.

It’s not fun, other games don’t do it because it’s not fun. It makes no logical sense.

NO!!!

The whole point was and points I made in post talking about this was Devs need to stop design where it’s 1 step forward 2 steps back. Stop with the NEGATIVE EFFECTS!!! It’s actually annoying and makes people uninterested and not want to play the game.

The same goes for FG and their node to use a 2 hand and shield but you do less damage and attack speed. How about NO!! Get rid of the negative effect. Just let FG use a 2h and shield because they are a dam FG. (Then maybe people will start playing FG)

Geez.

(It’s really not that complicated, it’s just anti-fun design that causes people to quit sooner than latter. Stop implementing negative effects into everything. It’s annoying. )

It really just makes people want to play other games. It’s uninteresting unfun design.

Hopefully this is now clear. Good day.

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I’m not disagreeing or agreeing with you, but adding a shield with a two hand even with the current downside is still a huge buff. Just add primo uni shield or bastion in offhand depending on build and play style dps/or tanks. I understand why they put in a negative stat to gaining the item combo. Do I want it (no) does it out weigh the gains (no), do I get why they did it (I believe I do)

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Tbf, plenty of gems/passive keystones have negatives, like less damage or attack speed.

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Bees are gonna buzzzzz like CRAZY!

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Glad we aren’t in disagreement.

Players don’t see it that way and so that’s why FG isn’t played. The overall Mastery needs huge QoL so FG can actually be FUN to play at some point. Right now it’s just trying to micromanage downsides, minions duration and annoyance using them.

Want to fix FG and make it fun to play? When you choose FG you get 6 permanent forged weapons to fight beside you like a falcon. Untargetable, permanent minions. You can increase their max numbers by passives and items. Rework all the skills that summon Forged weapons to do something else since now they are permanent minions.

Have the mastery increased you and your minions damage based on armor. Remove the negative of 2h and shield and have any 2 h weapon. You are a FG it’s a perk of being a FG and master of weapons. (makes sense right)

It’s a bad design philosophy if everytime there is something cool, there is a negative attached to it. Just makes people say to themselves why am I playing this. Can we just have something cool and make it “FUN”.

Now you can argue about balance and stuff (mostly irrelevant) because at the end of the day this game doesn’t have players or player retention. I want LE and EHG to succeed some day and if they want that to happen. They need to stop implementing an abundance of anti-fun design and negative effects that just don’t make much sense. (players don’t like it!)

If nothing changes then nothing changes. There is no reason to play FG or use some of these items, builds or classes. The design isn’t fun so people don’t engage with them. Then they leave and play other games.

Just something to think about.

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I really want to home in on this and tie it in with what I said above.

Player Perception is EVERYTHING!! All players see is the downside so they don’t want to do it. No one wants to engage in this cool mechanic when it feels like the downside is punching you in the :volleyball:

At the end of the day it’s bad marketing because “Players perceive” it as bad and not worth doing.

Want an example : A couple decades ago a major fast food chain launched a 1/3 pound burger to compete with the Quarter pounder. No one bought it because they thought is was actually smaller. The marketing campaign failed because even though it was a better deal people didn’t see it that way.

So how do you think players view all these negative effects? They just see them for what they are. Really unfun design they wish wasn’t there. So it’s no mystery when you do this design people don’t use it and or quit.

As I mentioned above, focus on making the design fun and design something really cool without the negatives! Please and thanks! Then people will engage with it. Players really don’t want to be hassled jumping through a bunch of hoops and negatives to find fun. (the numbers don’t lie)

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I’m driving so I can’t properly reply but if you know how to LEtools creep me look up the player account Legionone. I have a lvl 99fg and a “wacky” build that uses a 2hd and a shield and out puts millions of damage in empowered echos. And can take reasonable hits

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I’m happy you have a build and having fun. However this doesn’t matter. Hardly anyone else is and we know this for a fact because they released the numbers. FG is one of the least played and worst masteries.

Player perception is everything. If you expect players to do what you did or just accept this negative effects. You are wrong! The numbers show that you are wrong. People won’t engage in it because it isn’t fun. They just see the negatives so they don’t even try. They play builds without negatives or different games.

Hope this makes sense.

No worries, when you can properly reply hopefully you are understanding the core of what is being said. If there isn’t a massive overhaul of these negative effects and design you aren’t going to get players. You just aren’t.

FG won’t be played till players perceive it as fun because you eliminated these downsides and enhance QoL.

Players won’t engage with corruption or any system with an overabundance of negatives especially when player perceive they have to. They will just go somewhere else.

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I kinda get your point, I’d rather have a balancing that has just fewer positives instead of actual negatives.
And I also think that FG is not really fun to play, and is definitely my least played class.

But I disagree on the reason. 2h+Shield is great to have, and it is still a clear net power gain that just shifts the balance towards a defensive side - which you can turn into offensive power as a FG.
The only FG I played longer and actually enjoyed was a Phalanx+Sigeons combination using Javelin and Shield throw. I barely noticed the downsides of forgemasters might, because the build is strong enough to completely overpower that.
If it doesn’t fit your build, because a shield does not make you stronger, it’s completely fine to skip the talent - but it’s usually worth it.

The real reason I don’t play FG is because the skills are either weak, clunky to use, not fun to play with, or just work better as another mastery - and I imagine that many others feel the same way. Because FG was already one of the least favourite masteries (overall) before Forgemasters Might was ever a thing, so that simply can’t be the issue that people have with it.

Again, I get your point, and I don’t like the new items with new downsides either, it looks like a simple tradeoff between two stats which feels a bit unnecessary. Nor the attribute corruptions, which take away valuable defensive values.
But I think it is completely fine that big mechanical upsides, like having an extra item (be it shield or a second 1h) might require a slight balancing in return. Being fully overpowered is also definitely not fun.

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It really is marketing. EHG is trying to sell us something but then they are saying but wait… here is this negative. It’s a really bad sales pitch. It’s not creating EXCITMENT!!

If there is no excitement because of negatives. Then people aren’t buying this season.

This is the majority of players that is why only 1.1% of characters are FG. EHG has to realize gaming is sales and marketing. As players we are browsing the classes and are going to pick and play the ones that have the least negatives, most positives because that is fun.

No one after an 8 hour work day wants to log in and play FG :joy: They just had work they don’t want to be frustrated while gaming. Players want to have a good time and forget about their day.

Okay but less than 1% of players see it that way. “Player Perception”

You could have something perfectly balanced but it don’t matter much if no one wants to play it and it isn’t fun.

Note - Just for clarity only 1.1% of characters are FG typically made by players who have multiple FG’s. Which is why less than 1% of players play FG.

Which is the core reason of my post. FG needs buffs, remove the negatives, enhance QoL.

Indeed it is unnecessary. Also the main problem is how overall “Players perceive” the design and I’m telling you now. They perceive it as bad because it doesn’t matter if the positive outweighs the negative. They see that negative so they don’t want to engage with it. It’s human nature.

It’s going to be difficult to get the mass majority of players to agree with you. I’m sure EHG agrees with you. The problem is no one is going to play it. Remove the negative, enhance QoL and you will see players start to play FG.

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Again I’m not saying there should be a down side to having a shield and two handed weapon. I’m just saying hey look at my wacky build because I like making my own builds.

If you would like me to give you some “ammo” to support your side, and provide how I would approach the devs to change what you have as an issue. It would go something like this.

So it has been stated on from multiple devs in multiple communication areas that class identity is an important feature in LE, and as far as been stated is something that will continue to be considered while the game evolves. In a previous patch FG mastery got changes that allowed for a more individual identity by allowing the class to be the only one to use a two handed melee weapon and a shield together. Which as its core is a great direction to take. Currently the 1st introduction of that new mastery identity has been introduced in what a group of players find to be “undesirable”. And has created a feeling that by choosing to add a negative bonus to what feels like should be the masteries identity is a punishment to those who want to pursue this character design. Currently other masteries do not have built in down sides to their character designs. Examples of this can include but are not limited to; necromancers can summon minions with no negatives, rogues are not limited to just glancing bows or dodge as their only means of survival and get these defensive layers easier then others with no inherent limitations, mages continue to gain ways to double dip attributes with minimal restrictions imposed. Additionally some believe that if the character identity involves using a melee two hand and a shield, the ability to do so should be gained as the mastery bonus selection and not require over 40 points just to gain access to it. Kind of how the beast master gains access to additional companions soon selection.And at the very least the masteries exclusive skill should have tree nodes that align with this character identity and give bonuses for doing so.

Now will that work who knows , do you like that inno I’ll wait and see. Either way I don’t disagree with you and wish you luck.