Highly disagree. Games that have maybe >10k players work better with a trade system. It’s enjoyable for many and gives people an extra choice to use it or not. Features such as item drops aren’t set low to work with the economy, its set low so items have meaning when you find them.
For majority, when you find everything too fast, you get bored. Sure, you can argue that if it’s too hard to find anything after playing so long, that sucks too but that is why these games all rely on RnG.
As long as you are able to complete all content without any hard problems, it is fine. Yes, the game is about gearing and killing bosses and visiting and completing all of its contents which you can do, perfectly fine and with ease, with 0 LP items. You can push up to mid 100’s with 0-1 lp gear. You can push to around 1000 with 1-2 LP gear.
You should play the game at your own pace instead of wanting very good items. You are well capable of experimenting end game and pushing a bit more with minimum dedication so no time to farm is not a good argument since this game is set so easy to push to end game. End game can mean higher corruption to you but since that is infinite, that’s not really a good reason.
You also have the option to join MG and at the current state of market, get items for basically free. Of course if you want to be a perfectionist and try to get the best (really really good) items, don’t even think about it unless you are doing some serious no life grinding and on top of that praying the rng gods are with you.
This is massive online multiplayer. There will be player interactions, weather it be directly or remotely through just dealing with them such as MG. Player interactive is ideal or else they would’ve just make the game single player and/or basic direct connect, co-op mode.
So yes, another game mode is a solution but probably not good as it will split the players and probably not as much interest as normal server but I think offline/co-op mode should be worked on, allowing people to modifier their drops and/or get plugins to help do what they want to do.
Trading with “friends” without restrictions is an invite for RMT. You just add a random person as “friend” to circumvent those restrictions like resonance.
You say " some people need time to play"… We all invest time, the majority has a full time job and/or family. Yet they still manage to enjoy the game without complaining. They knew what to expect and how farming/grinding for an item works. It baffles me that people buy a game without having any knowledge about what to expect just to complain in the forums about devs not catering to their “needs”. Thats how their time gets wasted in the first place and could have been prevented with gathering a bit of knowledge beforehand imo.
If this game/genre is too time consuming maybe a different game with less farming and lots of RMT can be the solution.
Droprates are fine, ppl should just appreciate that there are CoF and MG to make it a little bit easier.
The problem is very complex and lies is in cycles/seasons etc. 3-4 moths not enough to find very rare gear. Limited timeframe is the biggest mistake in arpg. And here we have like 0.00000000001% drop rates for 3-4 months realy? Diablo 2 was fun coz I don’t need to create my character every season and can farm my gear for years and cry when it’s finally drops. What we have here? Noone would cry on lp4 omnis, they already have lp2-3 omnis wich they bought from other people btw
But what is stopping you (or other players), that know the 3-4 months cycle is not enough to get the top end items, from. Playing Legacy. The option is there.
There are people for whom the 3-4 months is enough to get all the stuff they want.
With the right strategy, skill and dedication you can easily find the most rare gear within that timeframe.
If it’s not enough for you: Good thing is there is an alternative
Well, the thing is, a MMO game with trading, wasn’t meant to find all the very rare gears alone, at least not anytime soon.
There is no limited time besides the persons own time. Everything is still there after a season/cycle is over but people still mostly choose to play the new one which shows continuing to optimize gearing isn’t priority.
For me, one of the top priorities for this type of game is to have a good playerbase. I like it lively and have active interactions with fellow players and one way is through trading, whether it be direct or remote (prefer direct old school but automated auction house is better than nothing).
One of the things that made D2 great was it’s trading economy. With this, you can actually scale at a rate where you can get some of the best items before the ladder got reset or a new season. Items gave that “wow” factor when it drops, mainly because of having a economy and because it was a cool item, “unique shako woohoo”
Even with all the bots, rmt and maphack, there was still some sort of working economy and people dealt with it. MFing aka grinding was addicting somehow, trading, was definitely impactful on it. Being able to “easier” get what you want through trading worked and when you do actually successful get it, it brings even more excitement and happiness. Easier actually means time consuming btw but no one complained.
With an good economy, it makes drops exciting. For a MMO game with trading, more value drops = fun trading. The problem is the surplus of gold and the gold sink is a great idea except it’s having close to no impact on fixing it. We just have to try and enjoy what we are given and hopefully next season or whatever, handles some of these major problems.
The thing I really dislike about botting and RMT is that some companies have felt the need to use a kernel level anti-cheat in the endless cat-and-mouse game to try to stop them. Installing those is a hard no for me.
As far as the economy I play CoF. If I ever do try MG it will be largely limited to picking up build-enabling uniques I haven’t been able to find from the 0LP bargain bin.
I doubt it, so I’ll gladly showcase the glaring thought issues with it.
If the progression itself in the game isn’t something he enjoys then he picked the wrong game in the first place I would say. It’s a core concept and also is a form of ‘cheating’ in multiplayer games. Offline… no issue, he can do that! Online? Get the fuck outta here simply said.
Which poses the next glaring issue. A game is here for enjoyment, for downtime… to not have ‘work’ and instead focus on the things - even if they’re work-like - that you enjoy.
So seeing it like this in the first place is perverting the whole reason for existence of a game.
Also as above mentioned… if that’s the only way he derives enjoyment from it then he should go and play a game which fits his bill better. We got hundreds of thousands of games available, I’m sure he’ll be able to find one which fits his needs
If it’s in a societal setup, hence multiplayer… as soon as your fun infringes on mine I’ll gladly kick that ass verbally. It’s a major dick-move to do that after all.
Then play another game, this one’s not for you.
Oh, that’s where you’re absolutely wrong!
I have fun doing the baseline stuff in the game and I enjoy a rare drop even more so since it’s special. If I would’ve it given to me then I wouldn’t appreciate it as much as having ‘earned’ it myself.
A building made in creative mode in Minecraft no matter how well it looks will in the most cases be far less enjoyed by the person creating it then having to go through the hoops of getting the materials first, grinding it up and creating it then by adhering to all the limitations of your character and the world.
Exceptions apply, good for them, in single-player very great to provide options, in multiplayer not.
Yes, and I’ll verbally bitch-slap them for that. It’s utterly appalling to either provide or use means to gain any sort of unfairly gained advantage towards your fair playing peers.
I already detest stash tabs in Path of Exile, though they’re at least set up in a way that the game makes it seem like you’re in a trial version without paying for a initial setup… and then it’s done when doing it once.
Yes, I blame the RMT-users rather then the RMTers themselves, heck… who can blame them for earning a lot of money from people while personally not needing to do any ‘hard’ work outside of creating a one-time infrastructure related around bots and a selling-site?
The ones enabling it are the users of that service as well as failed systems which don’t limit the existence.
MG can be adjusted to limit it to a degree, active interference from EHG as well. We see that not being done properly at the moment which leads to the current situation.
But the ones responsible in the first place are the customers of that service, and for that they deserve every bit of disgust pointed towards them.
Because it’s a story-based RPG and not a grind-based game.
diablo clones are made for people who enjoy the grind.
You could also go and play ‘Siralim Ultimate’ for massive grinding, the whole game is a big huge grindfest… and people love it for that as well.
It was the main motivator in D2 after beating the game. Which made the game even as successful as it was in the first place.
So no, that’s actually not true. Diablo clones life and die with the grind, that’s their core concept diverging them from other ARPGs.
Exactly! And that’s by choice of the devs and not by the players.
Different diablo clones use different acquisition rates, hence they’re differently positioned in the market.
LE is vastly beyond D3 but not as much as PoE, that’s where we are in terms of pure time investment currently.
So if it doesn’t align with you it’s not a fitting game for you.
Yes, you described why you should play Baldur’s Gate rather then LE.
The emphasis is very strongly on those aspects.
In LE the emphasis of those aspects is not as strong, it’s on the loot and hack’n’slash, which makes intricate skill interactions like in Baldur’s Gate nigh impossible to realize sensibly.
I’m argumenting for that since it came out and people cry me a river.
I also argument that favor cost for listing is nonsensical and limiting the market.
And much more… but glad someone comes up with a easily visible idea which is the same as I provide regularly on the topic.
Thanks for that.
Yes, a cultural norm… which doesn’t change that the concept itself is predatory beyond end in most cases. It derives from card collection games like MTG where the chance to acquire a good card is fairly high per pack, much unlike the majority of gacha games nowadays which make you go through hoop after hoop to spend more.
It’s turned from a fun experience allowing things like draft-matches to a utterly appalling thing.
That guy on the other hand is completely fine! Single-player experience? Do as you wish.
Multiplayer? Plainly spoken… get lost.
Simple as that.
The TOS already states it, what more do you need?
It’s not allowed.
It affects the market.
Hence it affects more then the seller or buyer.
Hence it’s not to be done.
Yes, because the creation of those items wouldn’t be made through bots which do it in an automated way and hence skew the whole item acquisition rate which directly influences the market.
Oh, and that, which is a lot more visible.
Guess that alone already dismantles the argument in the first place.
Wrong equivalency, a poor kid informing itself about the topics on his own would be able to achieve the same bodily outcome as the rich kid, just access is harder.
It does, exactly so even.
And for that you should get a warning at least, especially since you made it official here.
And when doing it again banned.
Severty of the resulting punishment varies, nonetheless rules and laws should be adhered to since they have clear distinct reasons to exist.
So… if you leave a coin outside in your garden on a table… someone comes by and steals it… you’re at fault for leaving it out?
It’s the people doing the transgression being at fault, not the victim of it.
Taking measures against such situations is reasonable and should be done (like not leaving money out in the garden for everyone visible) but for fuck’s sake… the whole argumentation line is such a nonsense it’s baffling.
Exaclty!
RMT does though.
Case solved hence.
Shows a lack of economical knowledge from your side, not the reality of the situation though.
Depends on how the RMT setups work.
If it plays into the market through sales it plummets the prices since they undercut all other prices for quick sales (since mass usage is king there) and hence causing a sudden extreme variance in acquisition rate.
If they have another way of getting gold quickly then it has the adverse effect, which is highly inflating prices since the usage will be heavier then supply is given.
One way or the other RMT causes a game-market to destabilize. How vastly is only able to be seen by revealing the statistics, but it existing is nonetheless there.
Hence it has been a major issue with life ruining outcomes at times… a single crack in the system with that means you’re a goner financially at times.
I wouldn’t say ‘a minor inconvenience’ when it has outright destroyed while families.
Called ‘exploit’ and meant to be a offence that causes a ban usually, yes.
Please show me that ‘majority’… the only example is basic botters in PoE because they actually answer as the system itself is such an absolute disaster that the alternative becomes actually viable.
The are the whole cause, without buyers no RMT possible.
So yes… they are the sole problem.
All those games generally showcase minimum investment by the majority of people. They don’t do well at all while some are especially set up in vast amounts to provide a pure money-driven experience. One of the oldest examples is ‘Entropia Universe’ and it always did very very badly.
Yes, and especially the gold sink needs to be finally implemented, like… a tax included for buying items in MG, the prime place to automatically minimize inflation.
Yeah, I mentioned it once or twice before, too.
Other ideas: AH only, no direct trade. With a 2h grace period before listed items are actually shown for trade. If an item’s price is a hard outlier to the current market value of similar items - log the trade for investigation and make an example of users who dealt with RMT.
Yes, I agree, he picked the wrong game. Yes, it is cheating in a sense but not to the point where it affects other individuals or the market much. He’s senseless and wants to blow his money on virtual items, sounds more like a loss more than a win. And there are even people that do this and still can’t get the lead of others, which is sad. The problem is the people that are mass selling, usually obtains it through an unfair way, exploits/bots/hacks/etc.
If there was PvP or an actually ladder (there is arena but that’s a joke and classes arent the best balanced) then yes it will have a lot more impact but still not to the point where I would care so much. Only players that are jealous and/or high level leaderboard players that are losing to them would care but realistically, many are just trying to enjoy and play the game without racing for the top spot. Ladder resets work well because its an objective to race but for the current state and as a first cycle, it should be the least of concern and close to none.
Sounds to me that its more of a personal problem for people because they are hating that someone is able to spend money on virtual items which I personally, would grow a bigger hate for too, if I was poor.
It’s a core concept to progress without RmT but its also a core concept to trade in MMO to obtain items but many people are complaining about that. How do people think MG works? You need to grind to find item to use the system.
That’s the idea for most, yeah, but obviously not for everyone. Why are we so worked out and worried about how others choose to play? Especially when it has minimum impact? At least as of right now.
I would say the bigger part is not everyone enjoys grinding and not finding everything but most people just expect to get BiS items, quickly. Atm, it seems people are complaing on finding LP2 items yet they are fully capable of clearing all game content and more.
The problem isn’t the drop rates, its the scaling and lack of content. It is expected for baseline content to be around 300 corruption, that’s more than generous since empower is just 100 corruption but the thing is, reaching 300 is too quickly and easily. Don’t even need LP1 items for it, let alone LP2.
The scaling is so bad that you can complete empowers in like 50-60 hours solo just running through. You do not need to grind at all… Getting up to 300 ideal baseline, you might need to grind but its at a bare minimum and definitely not needed LP2++ items.
Disagree, unfair advantages are a players option… Something will always be unfair to someone else… Might as well cap everyones account to only be able to play max X hours per day.
While the RMT is in ToS so that already speaks for that as a form of cheating, i’m more concerned with the actual RMT that is able to, through obtaining with illegal apps/bots/cheats/exploits/etc.
Stop letting how others play affect you so much… Wouldn’t it be easier for you to stop playing then being so affected by how others play?
The real enablers are EHG by allowing the surplus of gold to be farmed, especially through illegal methods. Yeah, the users are enabling them to an extent but to say they are the ones responsible in the first place is wrong.
If gold was all legitimately farmed, I would have no problem with it but the fact that it is done through illegal ways is where the problem comes in. Why are you be hateful on someone spending or earning their money through “cheating” ?
To you its a game, to someone else, it can be a job. Besides, a form of spending money is on hobbies and this to someone else might just be that.
The same thing could be said to the EZ pass lane at an amusement park. Do you share the same disgust?
If you mean harm to the minimum, then you can be that Karen. There are bigger things at stake and the RMT users are not one of them. If there was PVP or a more meaningful ladder, then maybe.
He just doesn’t see the bigger picture of how the surplus and where it came from is the larger issue at stake…
Small fries that are RMT using here and there for a game at the current state is just waste of time and resources if they were to act on it.
I meant talking about trading in general, not RMT so my apologies on that but RMT is definitely not a concern for me, at least not the buyers. The biggest concern is the sellers and mostly the EHG for not handling the surplus of gold better.
You’re asking for the impossible so no, its not the sole problem.
The sole problem is the way the gold is surfacing. If say, all the gold was manually farmed legitimidly and sold, will buyers still be a problem? In the current state, most definitely not. With a feature such as PvP, rewards, etc. then yes.
Say what you want, allow monetization for players is the future. Gaming is one of the few activities that does more harm then good. Other hobbies can more than less, help physically/mentally.
Exactly, a way bigger culprit then RMT at the current state of the game.
Can you put it into statistically sound numbers just ‘how much’ is ‘not much’ there?
The whole argument falls apart the second you try to do that.
The question is: ‘Does it affect me negatively?’
The answer is: ‘Yes’
Magnitude is of no matter in that case.
There is a ladder, so once more, yes.
Oh, without any trade available I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass.
But there is.
Hence I do give a rat’s ass.
It’s fairly simple.
Lack of content, you can’t upscale without ruining any chance of new content being implemented that doesn’t utterly invalidate the beforehand one made plus provide upgrades beyond without extensive development time investment.
So it’s solely a lack of content, scaling adjusts accordingly with content available, that’s the major point for creating diablo clone games.
The whole point isn’t to nitpick if its right or wrong, it’s taking a small trivial matter out of proportion when there are way more things at a way larger stake for the game.
If you see my other posts, you would see I wrote something along the lines of a actually ladder, not some half assed ladder that is controlled by the current state of unbalanced classes.
Again, it doesn’t affect the game much in its current state. You are too worried about people spending their money on virtual items when you should be laughing at that fact…
That’s pretty much what I said. Direct drop rates aren’t only the thing affecting upgrades. There are many other ways to alter your drop rates or obtain items.
How do you know it’s ‘trivial’?
Games have literally died because of RMT alone, so why should it be ‘trivial’ here?
Where’s the indicator that it is?
Not your argument to make, it’s here, it gathers those people, it’s hence a viable point. That has no feelings attached but is a factual statement. Unless you wanna argue there are no people which play to push on the ladder?
It’s not about envy for me. I’m too content with what I have, which is so much more than less fortunate people have.
I just generally dislike people who use wealth or power to cheat the system - be it a game or society or the legal system.
There are enough games to present a shorter gameplay loop, that don’t involve grinding.
Expecting that every game should be catering to their expectations is a bit egocentric, isn’t it?
RMT is a general plague in video games. Impacting/Destroying the fair ingame economy, or with bots that actually disturb the gaming experience by farming on the same maps - there are many ways it directly influences other players. The spam messages in chat alone are annoying enough justification to put a stop to all of this.
Do you like shifting blame to victims? Farming gold is a legit strategy in this game. Botting, duping, etc is not.
It is a game. Playing the game is not a job, except for paid game testers, maybe. Creating content for the audience might be. Researching for game journalism might be.
But trading virtual goods in a video game is not a legitimate job when you violate the rights of the service provider.
As the amount of gold in the game is lower, not as disturbing for the market, but it would be still a violation of the ToS.
Yeah, it worked so great for D3 and Blizzard.
It’s a shitty idea that only invites more financially predatory behaviour, ingame market manipulation to maximize financial gain, etc.
How does this turn into a discussion about the health benefits and cons of gaming?
It’s the same thing as me asking you how do you know the RMT buyers are killing the game? It’s more than less obvious, that the problem is the surplus of gold and where its coming from rather than the people supporting and using it???
Not your argument to make, it’s here, it gathers those people, it’s hence a viable point. That has no feelings attached but is a factual statement. Unless you wanna argue there are no people which play to push on the ladder?
Again, its a trivial matter, the bigger at stake problem is the unbalance of classes which is all the same few builds over the dozens.
I’ve never said it wasn’t a problem the buyers, I just said it was to a point where its trivial compared to everything else at stake.
Yes, more than less, unbalanced classes. Every game has different levels of unbalance. Some more, some less.
For this game, it’s more unbalanced between classes as opposed to other, do we not agree? It is fairly new after all and lastly, this ladder was controlled by bugged broken classes, not unbalanced.
In the history of gaming there’s the knowledge of several online games which were so heavily impacted by RMT that the playerbase saw no reason to continue using their service and quite, hence causing the shutdown of their service.
A decent example of that nearly happening would be ‘Silkroad Online’ if you know that game. It was fairly well received game, had some glaring issues but nonetheless enjoyable.
They had over 50k concurrent players at a time even, back when the MMO boom was there.
RMT demolished their service in months, causing over 70% of players to quit as the chat became unusable, the market was utterly unusable and farming points were so flooded with bots that you couldn’t properly progress in the game.
Now it dimples around at 1k people at best, having never recovered.
So we have a direct example for the ‘it can break a game’ side… what’s your counter to prove that risk isn’t existing for LE?
Also not your argument to make, do you know the number of competitive people in the game or those enjoying competitive aspects of it?
Yes, of course but there is a different from just disliking and taking it so personal where you want to gut the person.
Exactly.
Yes which I agree on but it’s a trivial matter at the moment, especially when there is no real competition factor.
You’re quoting me but agreeing with me? Are you trying to reply to the other guy? I did agree with and said this.
It’s a job, just not a legitimate one. Never claimed it that.
Anything can technically be a job, if you can earn from it. Of course you want something that is stable and legit.
That’s deeper. Yes, it will still be a problem in terms of ToS as for it actually being a problem for the game itself, no.
It actually did work better than it didn’t. It’s not what killed the game, imo. Blizzard also were getting mad that players were selling more items outside of the ingame RMT… Item’s were selling on ebay for thousands.
It’s definitely a shitty idea in terms of market manipulation and quality for the game but more than less of the times, should it affect direct game play for an individual. I always laugh at people that spend money on virtual items because I can use that same money and for physical goods.
Besides monetization for gaming is the future. If someone commits to a hobby such as gaming, they need to be rewarding in some manner or else it will always be one of the less accepted hobbies in society.
This game is not as a state of P2W. There is no real competitive factor at the moment This game is not as a state of P2W. There is no real competitive factor at the moment This game is not as a state of P2W. There is no real competitive factor at the moment
