Respeccing should be easier earlier and harder later (if at all hard)


I do not have good ability to synergize skills and stats and items. It is very frustrating in this game that during the campaign leveling it takes so long to level up a new skill or even just respec a few points. However, on my level 80 character, it takes basically no time at all to level up a new skill to 19/20. And the last few points of skills are nowhere near impactful as the first 10 or 15.

I think it should be the other way around. During leveling, I always end up choosing terrible skills or skill point synergy and I deal so little damage or run out of mana super easily. And when I want to try to fix it or just test out new skills, it feels so punishing and anti-fun to lose basically all your progress, as the minimum skill level is way too low as well.

I think it’d be way better if there was no punishment to change your skills early on so you can experiment and not have to grind up a new skill that’s absolutely terrible with few points in it. Because if you change abilities, not only do you have to start over with just a few measly points in a new ability, you also lose all the power in your old skill too. So now you’re left with two bad abilities that you have to slowly slog through until you can just reach a point where you can see if you even like to use the new ability or if the points you try out work well.

I don’t care at all about being hardcore or proving myself, I just want to have fun.

So my suggestions are either:
-greatly increase the rate the minimum skill level increases early on
-make skill xp gain much faster early on
-just make respeccing completely free til monoliths (or entirely… but I know the ppl will whine about muh hardcore gaminggg)
-allow some sort of practice room where we can test abilities and skill points freely
-or anyother way really…

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I agree the current system doesn’t incentivize experimentation in the way that the devs might hope while leveling. I’d definitely like to see some changes made, I think skills keeping the experience you gain for them would be an easy first step. That way if you try and level something else, at least you didn’t lose the experience you put into past skills.

You suggest pretty much the state of skill leveling before a patch. Some of the Elite players made a fuzz about the shallow progression after level 50 when all skills were maxed and because of the feedback of a few people in the forums the whole skill progression got draged out to absurdity. Sadly right now everything seems to be like EHG wants it to cover up the shallow progression systems in place whre you had 50 levels of oblivion ahead in the original iteration. Now you get your skillpoints slower to have something outside of a skillpoint every now and then.

That’s the whole debate in a nutshell and I hope some more people will voice their concern about the system in place because EHG could make it better for sure.

The devs don’t change the game to cater to a few on the forums. They take all the feedback and make their own decisions.

They’ve smoothed out the skill levelling a lot compared to pre-0.9. Before 0.9 you’d hit a brick wall for a few character levels then once you reached the next skill level threshold they’d all level up instantly, the nothing until the next threshold in a few levels time.

I’m not saying there’s not a dearth of progression after a particular point, but that’s a very different point to the skill leveling one the OP is making.

I’d also disagree that respeccing is “bad” early on. IMO, early on your skills are very low and not providing much in the way of character power, respeccing early on doesn’t really change that. Conversely, if/when you can equip the next higher weapon base or craft another damage modifier on your weapon, that does give you a noticeable bump in power.

Later on the reverse is true, you get most of your power from skills rather than gear (for minions at least, not sure I agree with that for melee skills or even spells unless they get a lot of flat damage from passives/skill tree.

I don’t get the complaint that respeccing is not easy while doing the campaign. I do it constantly on nearly every character and I’ve never found any of the alleged problems with deleveling a skill to actually exist. The campaign is easy and there’s almost zero need for your skills to be at the level they would be if you picked them from the start.

Yeah but only a small ammount of people brought the topic up and to an even smaller number it was something that needed to change. I was all for a change of the progression after 50 but not on cost of skillprogression but for a new system that takes place.

I talk way back when you had your 20 skillpoint max at ~lvl 50.

When you are NEW to LE it’s the most terrible thing it’s just a “tell me to go F myself without telling me to go F myself!” move to do to someone with 0 plan of the game who wants to see what does what. Don’t get me wrong it isn’t a big issue when it comes to power but it feels terrible and I know 2 (Yeah realy only 2 ^^) people who don’t buy the game because it “steals their time” with that setup and “Don’t allow to experiment”. If everyone who plays LE knows 2 people like that that makes a few ^^.

It just don’t feel right that they made it a slog to reskill towards new players. I wish they had some kind of “As soon as you have up to 5 skillpoints in a skiltree you can refund them for free.” thing in place so people eraly on can test arround with skillsetups and skills without feeling “robbed” of progress.

I only care about this topic because it most likely makes new players sad. I don’t care at all because I already have the tree setup in mind when I create a toon or simply regrind the exp and take the system in place as it is. I still think the new player experience suffers a lot from the system in place.

Well that’s good for you but you know… there are other people out there… and… well… how should i put it… they are different from you and have different problems and most likely different ammounts of playtime. Just try to imagine you are new to the game or genre or you are used to D3 and then something like this happens. I belive everyone of us has enough fantasy to know new players will be baffeled encountering this system. If they have no plan about the game setup and enemys in place the rather “walk in the park” easy storypart will become hard. Sure expirinced players walk through that part with their eyes closed or watching a film on their second screen but this needs some level of experience or skill.

Not everyone is in the same boat and I know people who are pissed about this system because even if it’s 10-30 minutes to relevel a skilltree later on that’s sometimes 1-30 minutes of their 120-180 minutes they have to play every now and then. I get why some people have issues with the system in place and the artifical stretch that heppened years ago.

“Tell you to F yourself”? Because sometimes you have to use a marginally less powerful skill for a short amount of time in very forgiving content, which you only really even know is less powerful if you’ve fixated on the number under “Skill Level”? Come on. That isn’t anything more than over-the-top hyperbole. You don’t even need to specialize in a skill to try it out and “see what does what”. You can just toss it on your bar and go to town for at least half the campaign.

Frankly, it sounds like you know two people who are very melodramatic, who would have found some other reason to get mad and ragequit if it wasn’t that.

That doesn’t mean their differences and problems are automatically valid ones.

By the time the campaign actually needs any experience or skill (Maj’elka), you’ve been given ample opportunity to acquire as much as you need of both. For everything else up to that point, it is so forgiving you have to be actively trying to make bad decisions for it to be challenging.

It also doesn’t mean they are entirely invalid. Feelings about a thing are also important as is communication.

That’s probably because other games have taught them that. Not sure what the “solution” is.

And they’ve probably added/changed stuff that, like, 1 person has mentioned/asked for, doesn’t mean that that 1 person has control over the devs…

Yeah, that would be nice, I’m still hoping for something.

As I said I’m talking about new players. I couldn’t care less because i’ve time on my hands and know the system for a while but I know people who are alienated by the system in place.

Uhm nope ^^. let’s take Chain Lightning for example. how much jumps do I need to skill into itß When does it get bad with mana consumption and so on and so forth. It’s not as easy for new players as you picture it. Sure I click the Skilltrees blindly and come up with something that works but some other people aren’t that experienced or think their build setups through and skill what they think is fun but is BS at the end of the day. Respeccing out of a BS build you created and then getting “punished” by reduced available skillpoints make a lot of people salty for sure :D. I know at least 2 of them ^^.

Everyones problem is a valid one it simply depends how you communicate the problem. A karen might have problems all day long who cares. Someone who says he feels his playtime is stolen by the System in place because he likes to juggle points arround has a valid point as little as you like it to read and as little as it means to you it means a lot to other people.

Lagon says your skill is to evolved and you need to drasticly remove the ammount of skill and experience to imagine the problems average players have :smiley: .

Yes and no. One friend plays PoE for example and says “I knew from the beginning i loose xp when I die it’s on me and I knew I need regrets to reskill it’s on me.” he was totaly disgusted that this came kind of through the backdoor and he felt it wasn’t communicated well and just some kind of disguised death penelty.

When I thought about that I started thinking. Is this advertised somewhereß is there an ingame prompt that explains everything in easy understandable words? I click through most stuff these days without reading but I think there is some kind of prompt the fist time you open the skill page. Is this explaining it? I need to take a look :D.

Non the less removing skillpoints for respeccing is just a waste of time. To me it means nothing because I can simply say “let’s play 20 hours today I feel it!” while a friend says “I’ve maybe 30-60 minutes today if I’m lucky and neiter the kids or the dogs start a riot not to speake of waifu.”. If you pair this with cough a realy low skill level there will be problems ^^.

Noone said something about control I simply think the devs should focus on the market they’ll please. With some changes they made in the past they may make some real casual low skilled players avoid LE because from the fiew of a casual low skilled player LE is highly influenced by elitists and the 1%. For some people this is a real Problem and I understand it somehow even if it’s a bit soso because low personal skill shouldn’t be a reason a game get’s easier. Then again people with a low skill cap shouldn’t bee forgotten because these people mostly pay games.

You very strongly implied it.

What makes you think they don’t?

You of all people know how much grief there’s been about the CT programme. Certain people have always had a problem with that kind of thing and they always will. God knows what “they” would think if they found out that EHG have actually hired some CTs & community members.

The devs have never done that. They have made many changes to somplify things, nerf things or make thongs (yes, I’ve left that one in especially for @vapourfire) easier/better for that demographic.

If so then sorry I don’t want to imply that. It’s just some people came up with an idea to make skill progression a slog to have something to get later on instead of only a level every now and then. I still don’t understand why EHG thought that is a good ide outside of content stretching.

Because I’m confused af ^^. Elden Ring I can see the niche, Blizzard games I can see the grey mass but LE? One time I think “That’s a win for the casuals!” the next die I ask myself “Who are those elite people you cater to and do you think all of them will buy enough MTX to float the boat?”
That’s maybe a me problem because sometimes I just have ??? about my head and need some time to process the information. I like the middle ground approach from trading and I’m no fool and such an approach isn’t available for every system in place but the voice of people who wanted an extra progression when skils are done went completely and utterly unheared without even a mention.
Again I have enough time to kill but I changed my view a bit when I was confronted with different oppinions from my friends who are all sane people with valid points ^^.

It’s up to EHG and if I were in their shoes I would definetly hire some of the more talented and eager to help foo… people… to pay them a student loan while i rub my hands and say “Excellent!”.
I just realy hope they don’t loose average Joe out of side or don’t want said Joe as a customer because most of the time there are wales and average Joes who spend money between all the “I payed box price f off with your MTX crap!” people.i wish LE success and I hope they can bring themselfs to an even friendlier approch to all the players out there. I miss the chill vibes Mike presents in the firday streams everything else seems to be a bit… stiff and political in fear of saying something wrong.

I don’t know how to put it better but I understand why some folks I know don’t touch LE untill there is a free WE sometime in the distant future to see how the game evolved.

I know there have been balance passes I get it and the game is easy for myself quoting the story part as “A walk in the park!” I get it. Still I know people who are totaly and complete overwhelmed with LE even when they have no issues to come up with a build in PoE. (BTW should I ping @vapourfire as well so he’ll be tortured by my denglish as well?) I can’t realy bring anyone to point the finger on the problem but I think it’s the skilltrees they are not used to and the passive tree on top of it while equipment is mostly useless.

Then again Respeccing early game should still be easier :smiley:

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Probably because that would require a massive amount of work which they don’t have time to do, given we’ve gone an entire year without a patch.

You do know that they want to extend the levelling process at the top end (95+) so it’s more like D2 don’t you?

How easy do you want it? Totally free that you can swap skill points around willy nilly?

I don’t believe that can be the case. If someone’s “overwhelmed” in LE, god knows how they’d cope with PoE…

I don’t even know when they changed the skill… arround 2+ years ago iirc? So thats no “It happened recently and EHG had their hands full.” case.

Yes the question is if we talk D2R or D2 because D2R got a lot more player friendly like D2 vanilla or LoD.

Yeah I think it should be willy nilly (whatever that means) for the first 5 levels.

Maybe because they are used to it? Cant tell myself whats going on there. Most likely some kind of brainfart and overcomplicated thinkig no idea. The main takeaway for me is: There are still people who stuggel with the game.

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