You’re making problems where they are none. You could easily forbid re-speccing in Maps / Arenas / when grouped. Whatever.
I really understand the core complaint from most people that want “free-respec”, but i think EHG already did something pretty good with 0.7.8, with changing the exp-curve, so early on it takes longer and in mid-/lategame releveling skills gets pretty easy.
Some of you were talking about 50-ish/60-ish chars, which is roughly the point at which you complete the campaign atm.
The exp-cure keeps on increasing and with lvl 70+ or even 80+, which is still something even the most casual players can achieve easily, this “problem” becomes even less.
Releveling a skills from 1-18/19 takes literally a few minutes at that point. Yes the last level from 19 to 20 can get really long, but as many already have stated, that are happy with the current system.
It reallly make the “progression” feel good. At least for me and a lot of other players.
Just knowing that you can freely respec with any downsides, even if one personally don’t wanna do it, would make everything about progression feel less exciting.
I really don’t understand why people find it so punishing to experiment. I mean the game is pretty easy early on. And you get your 2nd and 3rd spec slot pretty early. In that stage of the game you can easily keep 1 “mainskill” and respecc the other 2 skills every few levels and try out something new. As soon as you get your 4th or later the 5th spec slot, this becomes even less of a problem.
You really do not need “all” of your current spec slots to successfully run the campaign.
EHG already implemented a 1 point respec feature, which is fine, for some minor tweaks or if you wanna test specific nodes within a skills tree.
And if you reached somewhat endgame and wanna do really high content, then respeccing might hurt you build for a while, but then again you can do like a few areans or MoF waves to get any skills to 20 within a adequate timeframe.
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When the only argument from the “no free respec” camp is that “it would spoil the game for ME because I want MY choices to matter”, consider me unimpressed. No one ever forces you to press that respec button so this argument is null and void. The fact you know the respec is there and free spoils the game? Grow up and stop being selfish.
I have to ask…How do you possibly handle level 70 then? When apparently respecs are genuinely free and instant? Is that where you quit the game because it’s now spoiled? Serious question.
Yea, sure, because you would not respec before arena/amps or boss arenas, not even talking about ladder. For me, it’s mind-boggling you don’t see such a obvious issues.
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In what way would you respec before an Arena? Arena is end game you’re going to go in with your best spec.
Even then? So what if I respec before an Arena? Go me. Good players go in prepared.
You’re claiming respeccing IS already free and instant after level 70 so I can already respec before an Arena with the current set up? Surely my optional button is better for you as well as me?
And it’s different from yours how?
We are just telling you, that changing it into free respec would spoil the game for us, how it is “spoiled” for you now. Only difference is, that we are just making things up and it would not spoil anything for us, because you said so.
Of course we want game to be as fun for us as possible, you want the same. You are still either ignoring what we are saying, or you are just not accepting it and repeating “noone is forcing you” argument. Stop it.
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Why are our arguments different? Because I want everyone to have the option and you want no one to have the option. Very very different. Options are good.
Please answer how you are handling level 70 if you say respecs are so easy at that level? Surely all the drawbacks you are citing against my free respec request kick in for you then anyways?
So the game is spoiled for you with free respec, you say, but you’ve not explained WHY it is spoiled? That’s like me saying the game is spoiled for me because the Hardcore options exists,
I already explained it and you ignored it.
I would just lost interest, rolling new character would not be fun. I don’t enjoy, when your choices in RPG are meaningless. That’s the whole reason.
And no, pretending that respec is not here is not a solution, I tried that in Diablo 3.
If you still don’t understand, that’s okay. Just accept it.
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I’ll try to explain and copy one of my posts from discord on a similar topic:
Imagine you get all your passive points with level 3.
Some people might say “Wow, cool. I don’t have much time so getting my full spec at level 3 saves a lot of time.” Others would be like “Oh no. It doesn’t feel like I earned my way and progression feels empty.” You could suggest latter people to just play on and only spend 1 point per level when they progress. But I doubt it would feel the same. At this point you can just pretend to progress when in fact there is no progress anymore. The fact that you know it is only a fake will make that progress not feel right.
By this I mean that it isn’t a respec penalty when it is a choice and not a hard rule. It’s like trying to tickle yourself. It doesn’t work.
The skill system in games like d3 or Wolcen don’t make me feel like I have an important choice when progress. You can brainlessly just blindfolded apply your points. You click, kill a mob, respec because it wasnt like you expected. This makes all decisions irrelevant. It aren’t choices when there is no drawback.
In LE, early levels, you are forced to kind of stick with your decision. Respec is a pain so you wont do it that much. But this also forces you to think about the pros and cons. To make up your mind and plan where you want to go. You are forced to understand the mechanics and synergies.
This also may lead to that point that you have to try to make a seemingly bad decision work. Perhaps by building gear around a skill that feels bad for the first 5 levels. But an hour later you may smash your enemies and think “Wow, thank god I did not respec that skill. It’s awesome.”
LE gives all the opportunities to respec besides your mastery. And the higher you go, the lower the effort.
So at the point you have understood most of the mechanics, you’ve earned some gold and a bunch if decent items you can respec very easy and explore everything you want.
The only downside is that you have to get to that point to realise.
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So because you cannot show restraint from pressing a button, other players should not get that button as an option. Nice.
I understand why you want no respec. I don’t understand why you can’t just not press the damn button. I never, ever in a million years want to play this game Hardcore. Yet the button is there. Not once have I been tempted to press it. Yet I find I can be happy for those who enjoy it and have that button to press. Good for them.
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Do you realized, that current game systems are designed in a way, because devs see things similar to me? You are downplaying the argument because you don’t understand the issue. I think we already said enough time, what you are proposing is not good solution for us, but I alone proposed something, I would accept - respec orbs…I still didn’t hear your opinion on that.
First of all, I don’t have problem with button. I don’t care. The only thing I am against is pooling these players together with other. As you are not pooling hardcore players and softcore players, you should not pool players with free respec and non-free respec.
What I am questioning however is, if this would not fragment population too much. I think it would. But that’s just my opinion.
Why would you need to segregate players based on respecc choice? Just make respec only work in set conditions like being in End of Time and not grouped or whatever, there is absolutely no difference between a free respeccer and er…the other one.
I mean why would you care if you ended up grouped with me, knowing I had freely respecced many times? If anything that will just mean my build is fine-tuned and very efficient.
You just said yourself at 70 everyone’s respec is as good as free, so what’s the problem?
As I said, it’s mind-boggling you don’t see the issue so I am not sure if more examples would actually help.
So my question is, why you are so dead-set to have these players playing together with non-respec players? Do you understand why hardcore and softcore players are not playing together? Do you understand, if you remove time commitment from one group of players, you will automatically put the other group into disadvantage?
Also, I never said that at level 70 respec is as good as free, and if it is, I would definitely want to change it.
Hi guys, seems like you’re having a vigorous debate. I just wanted to pop my head in and say that we won’t be splitting the community based on respec options. It will continue to be a blanket system.
That said, the system as a whole could change still. It’s not set in stone and we do want it to be something that players enjoy interacting with as a whole. We know it’s not perfect. We do have a vision for important requirements that can sometimes be difficult to reconcile with expectations from other games.
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OK so are we suddenly saying that a free spec player has an advantage over someone like yourself because it takes them less time to try out various builds than it would you? This is the first this has come up. I thought your only objection to free respec was simply that you wanted your choices to matter. Now it has become not only that you want your choices to matter, but that you perceive that players who don’t care to play the exact way you want to have some unfair advantage that you dislike? My mind is now officially boggling.
Hardcore versus softcore is not comparible for the record. HC players have a completely different playstyle to SC and they do not and cannot mix. SC players will get HC players killed - accidentally or otherwise - because they don’t have the same careful approach to pulling enemies etc. This split makes sense.
On the other hand, free respeccers play the exact same way as non-free respeccers, so the point is mute. I can buy the argument that a free-speccer like me might do better in Arena because I can try more builds out in less time than yourself, but you’ve chosen that path not me. It’s still no reason to segregate us, as the difference is minor and either of us can google the “best build” any time we want. Plus it’s a co-op adventure anyway, we’re on the same side. If you kill more enemies than me because your build is superior, I’d be delighted, believe me.
I therefore conclude there is absolutely no reason to segregate players because their respec patterns or options are different, especially if you control and limit where and when a respec can occur.
As for Respec Orbs. Sure. As long as they drop plentifully.
Context: I’d want to have about 1 drop per level for example, assuming they are used to remove 1 point from a skill tree, and perhaps 5 of them could be used to de-spec a skill completely without losing its level. Something like that.
No, and i think you should stop putting words into my mouth.
Respeccing freely will devalue every competitive aspect of the game, namely - ladder.
Also, it would screw economy, if some bosses could be killed by some gimicky combos, which is happening all the time in games like these.
But devs already said this is currently out of table, so we can put this to rest.
So you obviously don’t get the point. We have different mindsets and define “fun” in separate ways. This has nothing to do with “forcing people to play something unfun”.
With the same arguments you bring up you could defend cheating. If it does not affect you, why bother that others are cheating? You can chose to not cheat and done… problem solved.
The argument that people can chose to have a certain game experience by ignoring game mechanics is not viable.
Wolcen and D3 are both criticised for their skill system by players and press. So it’s obviously because it matters for a lit if people. This does not make these games bad per se. But it shows the expectations different people have.
D3 has a big player base. There are seemingly many people that like the simple respec.
Now here it’s different and you see a lot of people defending harder respec.
It is controversial and none of us will change his mind.
That’s ok.
Maybe EHG find a compromise. But if not I hope they leave the system as it is. One of us might be disappointed. I hope it’s not me. Maybe it’s selfish, so be it.
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I guess it probably depends on how it’s implemented, but potentially yes. If all they did was to remove the xp loss on respec & you could do it on the fly, you could take a skill, say Lightning Blast, and convert it from a clear skill to a single target skill just before you came to a boss, which would be a not inconsiderable advantage (only needing one skill for dps, as against one for single target & one for AoE).
If they required you to go to a vendor like they do for passives, then it would be less of an advantage.
The discussion (aside from the continued dropping of hyperbole from certain parties) seems to be geared mainly around one of ideology for the game. FREE RESPEC < = 98% of other gamers => NEVER RESPEC.
I’m willing to bet dollars to donuts that EHG is going to find the ‘best’ solution that fits in that 98%. Personally I think it’s mostly there. But when discussing the context of respec of skills, I also very much like to keep in mind as best as I can EHG’s methodology and ideology for what they want in the game.
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