This is just going back to using “opinions” to dismiss the arguments. Also, it’s a massive straw-man to make it sound like it’s only about me. As I stated, I’ve seen many people complain about this.
I actually had MMOs in mind when I said this, but it can happen to any dev studio.
It’s disingenuous to make it sound like it’s only a difference of opinion.
Edit:
It’s like saying that having a tax rate of 12% vs 50% is only a “preference.” It has tangible differences that create consequences over time. In this case, it lowers player engagement.
This is because people are buying into the illusion that the cost is what makes the choices meaningful rather than the opportunity cost of where you actually place those points.
I don’t think it needs to be something you can do “on the fly” as some people here have put it, but I also don’t think it’s necessary to put such a horrid cost or scarcity system in place.
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Didn’t mean one point at a time I mean one skill at a time. You can keep yelling it needs to change all you want. In my eyes it is well done methog.
Sorry, didn’t mean to upset you by posting my opinion on a mechanic and an example of how it could be improved in the feedback and suggestions forum.
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This is why I dislike the “preference” approach. It creates a double-standard that’s used to try to shut down discussion instead of explaining why A or B would be preferable.
Yeah ones preference is only unimportant if you’re unable to explain the underlying reasons for it.
The “that’s just like, your opinion man” crowd sprout up in all places you criticize a medium.
How many “but why?” do you have to ask before you accept the other person’s point of view as sincerely held. In any event eventually it all boils down to “but I just do/don’t ####ing like it”.
Plus just because someone’s not particularly good at putting together a coherent argument in English doesn’t mean their point of view isn’t valid.
I haven’t criticized anyone’s grammar, so I’m not sure where that last part comes from.
As for the first, as many as it takes to get an answer that isn’t just begging the question.
No you didn’t but it’s an example of why someone might not be able to hold their own in an argument which I would think may lead you to discount them.
Then eventually it always gets down to an emotional reaction to a thing. Which is what some of us have been saying for a while.
And what I have been saying is that this attempts to make it strictly about me when I have been very clear that it isn’t. I have been trying to strike that balance between acknowledging that plenty of other people dislike this implementation too without trying to directly speak for them or make some lame minority/majority argument that none of us can honestly assume. However, my experience across many games and the observation of player attitudes therein leads me to believe this feature will be highly unpopular–hence my concern for the game’s future. Maybe I’m wrong about it, but I haven’t seen much to persuade me of that.
It doesn’t really matter if it’s an emotional thing or not–it carries consequences. I want this game to succeed so that I have more than two ARPGs to choose from, and more than one with an online community. It would be tragic for this game to end up like Wolcen.
I’m not sure what Wolcen was like during development, were their devs as communicative as LE’s? Were they open to having a conversation with the community about changes they made & rolling the changes back/modifying them based on community feedback?
Far less than LE’s
Yeah, I wasn’t trying to imply the studios behaved the same way. I’m just concerned about the net outcome. You can have well-intentioned devs who still fail… looking at you, Wildstar.
Edit:
Man, I really wish that game hadn’t failed. It really was fun.
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i get were you come from. I had complaints about this in the past aswell before they changed it.
Sometimes iam still annoyed by the respec cost (since i want to try a lot of different things and screw up sometimes since i dont know all the skills good enough etc) but to be fair, i think its at the right place now.
When i come up with a good combination it feels really good. Iam still not sure if i would feel the exact same way if the respec cost were free, i think not.
I personally like the system that POE has because it doesnt always require me to spend time until i can play “normal” again (till the skills are leveled).
I hope that EHG will never make respecs cost free. I think the costs are in a pretty good place. To my own preference it could be a even a little bit less cost wise but i can work with how it is right now. Respeccing goes pretty fast since they changed it last time in my opinion 
So iam happy as it is. I still hope that they only lower it a little bit for mid levels but if they dont iam fine with it aswell.
I don’t think the costs do anything useful, but I’m not saying it has to be free. I just think deleveling the skills and losing the points is completely against what a “respec” is. I’d rather the cost be front-loaded instead of having to make up that time and play with gimp skills just to try something different. It’s highly demotivating.
I’ve presented my point of view, the reasoning behind it as well as a solution to the perceived issue. I don’t need anyone to agree with me, in fact disagreement and discussion is the most efficient way of solving things.
But if that gets dismissed with a:
there’s no real reason for me to fake courtesy.
Either ignore my suggestion or tell me why it’s bad.
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You know, I never did address your suggestion, but it’s pretty straightforward imo.
The training room would be an immense amount of work to implement–which doesn’t mean they shouldn’t, but it’s unlikely to see within the next year or two.
It also specifically favors players in endgame more than those trying to experiment or tweak their builds as they progress, because the availability of more passive points and better gear wildly changes the training room from being just “Let’s see how this feels to use (which requires enemies to come in various numbers and fight back)” to “How do I optimize my build now?”
I’m not dunking on the idea. Wouldn’t mind seeing it in game. I just think it fixes a different problem than the one at hand in this thread/topic.
I half agree on this, i prefer currency so you can make instant changes. But for abuse on swapping i think this respec method is good. Iam on two sides with this topic however like i said before, to my taste they could reduce the xp cost even more. I just dont like swap mechanics like you can do in POE. It makes the game easier and sort of exploitable were it shouldnt. Thats the reason i like how it is right now.
Also i like that you actually need to think really good about the changes you make.
Again the downside which i dont like is that it can be demotivating to try different things.
It has positives and negatives in my opinion also if you would change this system.
Just to approach this from a slightly different angle, I think there’s a reason that after EQ was big, MMOs moved away from exp loss and releveling to accomplish things, and that it mostly pertains to player attitudes about them.
You’re right, it might not be the most simple thing to code, but I’d be satisfied with a simple instanced room containing a training dummy.
I’m not a programmer but having it set up so that when you’re within that room, your minimum skill level becomes equal to the current skill’s level.
Then once you exit, it calls back the state your skills were in when you first entered.
My biggest issue outside of minmaxing has been “will this work/interact the way I think it does”, and being able to slap a dummy around a bit would for the most part be enough (though we need both a single dummy and ~3 bunched together for AoE testing).
I still think this would let you get enough of a feel for a skill to decide if you hate it or want to give it a go.
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