There is a solution… even back before the dark times of blizzard they had the foresight to give melee classes a flat 30% damage reduction bonus to help them survive on the account that they WILL get hit more.
But in a game like last epoch where any class can become ranged at a moments notice, identifying a certain mastery as “melee” becomes next to impossible, but that being said they do have a few “less damage taken from nearby enemies” here and there but it isn’t nearly enough, especially when a lot of the time the issue is a stack of ranged enemies that kill you while your in transit to said enemies.
What they really need is a straight toggle passive, “you deal less damage to far away enemies but take less damage from far away enemies” for people who actually intend to play a melee class, but that is nice again off topic to the point of this post which I stand behind.
“You deal less damage to far away enemies and take less damage from far away enemies” would kill a ranged class. As you said, in a game like LE, the game can’t be expected to know if you are playing your build as a ranged or melee. There are ranged skills that want to be used in close range too (node on Multishot that turns it into a shotgun, need to be close to hit all projectiles). So that doesn’t much solve the issue either. There isn’t going to be one perfect solution, and giving huge DR to “melee” might be nice, but who and what classes do you give it to when every class has melee and ranged options?
You could say if you have used and hit a melee attack in the last X time take Y% less damage, but there are skills int he game tagged both melee and spell or melee and bow and can be used either way dependant on gear and build.
Giving the player one more thing to forget about won’t solve it. Also, damage numbers can get pretty insane, some builds just won’t care about dealing 70% less damage, especially with how bosses gain damage reduction if you deal buttloads of damage to them up-front.
It won’t die because some people don’t like a boss.
It hasn’t died since people have been complaining about Lagon (been a while).
LE will truck on, with or without Julra haters.
Ranged have to “learn the mechanic”, they can’t facetank the void pools either, if you don’t drop them in the middle where the boss appears then you don’t have to stand in them to damage her.
It does.
TBF, he did say as a melee class (though I think he meant build).
It won’t die just because you can’t cope with the complex mechanics of “run to a safe part of the arena to dump the DoT pool”. If you want to facetank it, that’s up to you.
I wish you could go back in time and change this post concept to be; Dungeon design that requires multiple tries to learn the dungeon/boss mechanic should allow for a much less annoying way to retry the dungeon/boss.
Because folks that want to try to learn a mechanics for themselves without watching a guide shouldn’t be punched the crotch at every turn.
I think overall the dungeons themselves need to be harder, and the bosses need to be easier. The ideas in Lightless Arbor I think are pretty great. Put sub-bosses in both maps that I work my way to, then kill. Put a save point at the end of each map that I return to if I die so I can try again.
Admit to yourselves that keys are a stupid idea and remove them, and full flesh out the concept of dungeons being a big part of the alt level experience.
Dunno… I did… Julra is quite fine I got to say. Harder with melee but no issue anyway.
She usually doesn’t sit in her own death pools unless you screw up.
And even then she can be moved.
Seems like a ‘you’ problem and not one with the game.
That’s called ‘damage uptime’ as a concept.
Every build has a varying amount and usually a dev which is fantastic in terms of balancing takes that into consideration to a degree.
Melee generally has a lower damage uptime then ranged.
Makes the fight a tad longer… but not obscenely so. Just means it’s a miniscule amount more mechanical.
Is he? There had been some quite viable and reasonable suggestions already.
Might not always agree but the notion of calling him ‘a gatekeeper’ is utterly ridiciulous.
When you switch timeline and stay several seconds there → move to the border, plunk the pool down… return to fight.
I never, not even once had a singular pool anywhere else then the border of the arena after realizing how the mechanic works.
That’s… quite the take.
Dunno where you’re coming from. Might be a bit narrow-minded I would say.
You’re in no position to call for a change before even finding out the fundamentals of the fight. So heeding your call would be nonsensical.
Factually wrong. They also have to learn those mechanics. Especially so since ranged characters - commonly at least - have less survivability then melee. It makes it even more necessary to learn the mechanics.
Which is why Tier 1 of the dungeon exists, outside of the one-shot mechanics you have so much time to react to everything else that you can watch the fight and learn it accordingly.
That’s a shoddy bandaid at best, also not applicable to a game which allows the same archetype to both be build into melee or ranged.
Blizzard limited their character design back then since they had no means to provide a bigger variety, the genre itself was quite new. And the ‘dark times’ started with D3… so you can only mean D2, that didn’t exist there. It was introduced with Diablo 3, and that game is one of the most casual diablo-clones (fun to say it given it’s the OG franchise) on the market.
Not to speak that Blizzard utterly failed in making a enticing game in terms of character variety with D3.
Transit not in a direct line but by moving sideways a bit, this causes enemies to miss as the AI solely attacks the position you’re in and doesn’t follow your traversal route.
They’re still fine though, you got around 10 answers of how to handle them.
Follow those, why should the devs heed nonsense when you’ve been told the tactic to deal with them so they are a non-issue?
No, it’s a prime issue with how LE is set up, not an outlier issue.
A large quantity of builds has nonsensical DPS numbers which aren’t needed, hence they can afford reducing that, leading to overperformance in terms of defenses should such a simplistic mechanic be put into the game free of choice.
This then leads to the balance being even more broken then it currently is.
So no, not a viable option.
Yes, postponing it until you’re at least tanky enough to deal with empowered monoliths and then doing T1 Julra.
She has the same mechanics, she’s low-level, you can rush through the dungeon beforehand without a chance of death and you can simply run around and train at the boss instead of killing her outright since you won’t take tons of damage.
So there’s the option, but people don’t use it or try to rush into the content which is meant to be high-difficulty when they’re friggin level 60 and then come crying that they can’t roflstomp it like the other parts of the game often can be.
As a Melee player who usually has lots to complain about when it comes to Melee design in LE, I can say that Julra is fine.
There is nothing in this fight that is unfairly tilted against melee. There are some aspects of it that are slightly harder, but that is to be expected. But with respect to fights that are tilted against melee (Shade of Orobyss comes to mind), Julra is very low on the scale.
The Void puddle, if you place it in a spot that you need to reach the boss, that is your own fault. Simply place the puddle somewhere else. Yes, this adds a little bit of difficulty for melee, but there is a very reasonably simple and obvious solution to the problem. That is fair.
If you placed the boss in the very center of the room, which usually doesn’t happen naturally, yes it makes it harder for melee to hit when she’s in the blender. Don’t put her in center of the room. She can be anywhere else, just not dead center. Even if you do, it’s really not that bad.
The fight is not easy, it takes learning, but I don’t think it is unreasonably tilted against melee. Proper technique solves most major problems in this fight. And you can replicate it consistently without being super skilled.
If that is still too much to manage due to a skill deficiency or a disability, ask nicely in global chat or official discord and someone will help.
Julra is a well designed fight. Wish she was a boss that could be scaled with corruption.
Then those people need to learn the proper terminology. Calling someone a ‘gatekeeper’ for calling out nonsense is ridiculous.
Also the wrong application of the term itself. Gatekeeping is when you first have to go through some hoops to be acknowledged to be able to give a proper statement of the status quo. For example ‘First play for 1000 hours and then you can come and tell us that!’
If we take it for the actual meaning I’m much more of a ‘gatekeeper’ in that case, because I tell people to first learn the stuff they wanna talk about before actually talking about it… which seems reasonable as someone without knowledge about a topic can hardly provide substantial feedback, at best surface level stuff like ‘doesn’t feel good’ and not the ‘why’ beyond it as they lack the knowledge required for it.
I’m not talking about Julra at all. I’m speaking in an abstract way about dungeon design in an ARGP, which is kinda new, especially the way that EHG did it.
I think their dungeon concepts are interesting. I think their implementation… I wish I could be more generous here, sucks. It’s like they were trying to annoy their users. Two waste of time maps to get to the actual, much more difficult, fight is… why? Why would anyone think that is good or want to defend it? I’m at a loss. Keys? To get (apart from Julra) rewards that are only situationally better than stuff that just drops, or just drops from mono bosses? Why?
They need to do better. Good news is that I think they know this.
Lab in PoE has been there for many many years now. It’s the exact same design-style and even more intricate and long-lasting then those in LE.
So while not used often there’s at least examples of it, and the lab is also not well received in PoE… but offers what it’s supposed to offer. A method to acquire very specific types of items after a major time investment beforehand in comparison, even with the ability to access it being separate.
Actually we can even argue that Delve and Heist are the same rough direction of content.
Yes, that’s the crux of the issue. The content before is not enjoyable. If the dungeons themselves would provide unique rewards they could be made more complex and the boss-fight being a separate bonus on top.
Like it is now though it’s just a time waster. Lightless Arbour provides nothing beforehand, Temporal Sanctum is the same… and unless you’re rather early in gear progression Soulfire Bastion is quite useless as well since the outcomes are pure gamble and hence simply ‘normal drops’ which can be achieved far quicker in monoliths.
