Well said. Exactly my point. Current system will stifle player creativity at best and drive new players away at worst. Devs put so much effort in designing and balancing all those skill trees and then have a respec system that punishes players for exploring them, so noobs will just use a netbuid. I find it rather sad.
Why? If you allow that, you donât need to make any choices since you can just change it (for example, for a skill from aoe/clear to single target for the quest echo boss, or swap in some skills that improve your tankiness for said boss). Thereâs no permanence or identity to the character.
Why? Would you be ok with skills levelling as slowly in thr beginning as they do at the end?
That changed in 0.9
It is turning into quite an interesting thread⌠
I am somewhere in between, I think it is good that we cannot instantly change skills, to avoid the classic one set-up for bosses, one for trash. It makes the characters more consistent and building them more interesting (because you have to take every situation into account).
But I understand it can be a frustrating issue for new playersâŚ
Mmmm⌠
Maybe a simple solution could be to start the Minimum Skill Level at 6 (or the level of the replaced skill if lower than 6) instead of 1. Then you get 1 more MSL every 10 character levels, ending up at 16 at lvl 100.
This could work I thinkâŚ
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No it didnât
It really did. Now in the 60s-70s my skills will level slowly until the bar fills up. Before 0.9 the bar would sit at 0 then âinstantlyâ jump to full/level when you hit the character level requirement for the next skill level.
I think we are talking about two different things here.
The thing were the progress bar was not refreshed properly is another independant issue.
What I am talking about is that you get minimal exp in your exp bar until your character reaches a certain level and then it will take ~1-2 character levels to level up.
For example skill level 20 will be reached with ~character level 75/76
But from ~69-73 you will basically not gain any meaningful progress in your bar.
Once you reach a certain level your skills will gain exp much faster, so even if you immediately respec at that point getting to that point will be very fast.
Iâm not sure about that. I think it felt like i was making slow but steady progress as compared to pre-0.9. But Iâve never noted down when the skills used to level up so it doesnât feel particularly clear.
Yes please. You are making me drool.
And I can already do what you described above right, given how easy respeccing is at higher levels (which is what everyone is saying in this thread). If it takes a mere 20 mins to fully respec a new skill, then I can easily do that in preparation for a boss then switch back on the fly once he is down.
You might change gear for a boss fight? Whatâs the big deal?
I ask again, painful and expensive respecs at low level and yet negligible at high level. WHY? What is that adding to the game?
500% agree with this. I donât understand why people are held to this 20-year-old annoying systems like exp loss on death, no free full respec and others.
As a new player, I want to test everything and see how it can be combined together. I want to make my own build and eventually have fun with it, but with this system I canât.
Why? Because Iâm annoyed to level same skill over and over again and I donât want to experiment anymore because if I pick wrong node or different skill I can potentially ruin my build and Iâm unable to revert it back right away because I must level this skill again with bad build just to bring all points back. This is very annoying.
You should be able to change everything at a nominal cost or even without it.
People made point here that âlater in the game everything should be fineâ, so you mean I have to suffer entire early game and wait for the game to be fun later? Games should be fun INSTANTLY and having this system is not fun at all. Itâs just annoying and does not add anything to the game.
// sorry for grammar, english is my second language.
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But it doesnât take more time at lower levels. The first 1-5 levels come insanely fast, perhaps even up to lvl 8. And, as you level, your minimum level increases, so even adding a new skill gives you a higher minimum number of points at the start.
Besides, you make it sound like experimenting is just related to the skill points themselves. You canât just shift from a totem build to a cold-melee werebear⌠youâd need all new gear and idols. Even within a skill itself, youâre usually talking about damage type conversions, which would require changes in gear as well. And, this ânew playerâ youâre advocating for, probably doesnât yet have the stash of runes, shards and gear to just be swapping builds/damage types every 5 or 10 minutes. It takes time to get the new gear/shardsâŚwhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiichâŚis also leveling up the first couple of points in the new skill. See? The current skill respec system is a synergy between skill xp and gear acquisition!
It feels like skills from 17-20 level up every 3 or 4 monoliths, depending on how many mobs you kill in them. Itâs not painful in the slightest, and feels almost exactly like how it does leveling from 1-8, gaining a new skill point every 1 or 2 zones (3 perhaps at 7 and 8 points). Iâm not sure where this painful and expensive complaint is coming from, honestly, unless people are holding their hands over a candle and spending money on the Home Shopping Network while leveling new skills. shruf
This is not true. You donât hit level 20 in any skill until roughly lvl 75. Campaign (if you do all current 9 acts) ends at about lvl 50ish. Your highest lvl skill at this point I think might be around 15. Than there seem to be very distinct benchmark points going forward that roughly about every 5 levels is where you get another burst up.
I feel like one big misconception about LEs character advancement is this need to âplay around with skills as you level.â One thing I have noted is that some people will put one point in a 4 point skill, not see much of a difference and think, oh that one sucks so that take that point out and try something else and they never actually find out just how potent those few extra points can be.
Not all of the nodes mind you in my experience there are a lot of these. ESPECIALLY the multi point nodes that float around the main starting point for all skills.
I honestly think the real benefit of âtinkeringâ is actually best done between levels 70 and 90. Because youâre now at a point where your minimum is close to 10, so any time you respec you get a pool of 10 points to immediately pump into that 4 point node you want to fully test out. Things like that.
I remember when speccing was MUCH MUCH harder and I actually was surprised at how well this new(ish) version now functions.
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I agree. Iâm loving the game and having fun playing it with my friend but I havenât experimented with builds specifically because of this design choice. I even followed some guides and implemented someone elseâs build because experimenting yourself is just too punishing.
I think once you get to level 100 you should be getting accelerated XP for skills till the very level 20, not 16 as it is now. Getting them from 18-20 takes absolute ages, even in monoliths. Taking my points away when I respec makes me feel like the game is taking away my progress. I earned those points so I should be able to keep them, not avoid respeccing just because it takes a long time to get it all back.
This is simply not true. No matter how you play it takes ages to go from 19 to 20, let alone from 18 to 20.
Very good point that I had not thought of but I totally agree. It feels demoralising when the game reverses your progress.
Not sure about others, but for me this is BY FAR the high point in any ARPG, especially when you are new or are trying out a new class. And LE just punishes you for it which is bitterly disappointing. I loathe the lack of creativity that comes with following a build guild, but it really is the only sensible way to play this game.
No wonder this isnât as popular as it should be and the build websites are anemic, every issue i find (auto cast, toggling, autoloot afixes, basically any improvements to user friendliness, etc.) i google and end up in the forums with the cause being âthe devs donât want toâ while gatekeeping fan boys bring the suggestion down for no actual good reason
Thatâs because itâs in EA.
Thatâs because itâs in EA.
So, basically what happens in EVERY SINGLE GAME EVER?
For any given game there are always people that like it the way it is and people that donât. Usually they donât agree on these issues and itâs up to the devs to decide what they want to do.
Yes, the devs have some decisions not everyone agrees with. Like affix autopickup/autotransfer. However, itâs their game and they can do whatever they want with it. You can then either play it or not.
Are you one of the people crying to FromSoftware that their games are too hard? Do you want easier difficulties? Do you want a better map? Quest trackers? Tough. They donât want you to have those things. Itâs up to you to play it or not. Personally, Iâm not into FS games. But I donât wish they would downgrade the game to my level so I could play it.
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Iâm only 10 hours in but I agree that the respecc cost is keeping me from experimenting with skills. I havenât reached Monos or any other endgame yet, but during the leveling process I really wanted to play around with my Rogue skills, but I felt that I was being punished too hard for it. I actually found this very thread when I was googling how long it takes to respecc a skill. Many people wonât bother but will think it takes a considerable amount of time and just donât do it. I made a conscious effort to not look up build guides, but I admit that I was very tempted at some points and itâs pretty clear that the more decision permanence you introduce into the leveling process, the more you will push new players towards googlin meta builds.
I always liked the idea of making respeccing an inconvenience, not a punishment. Let me respecc freely, but make me go to a certain NPC for it. That will keep 99,9% of players from respeccing for certain encounters. Also, passives kind of work that way anyways, why not let Skill respecc follow suit?
You usually donât need all skill spec slots to be decently effective while leveling.
So keeping one skill specialized and experiment with the other slots can be a much better experience.
Also even though your skills might get a little bit weaker even a lvl 2 compared to a lvl 5 skill will still kill everything with 2 hits early on.
Specifically for the story I would find this much mroe annoying then being able to respec in the field and just clear hafl a zone and get back anotehr 1 or 2 levels.
The time it would take oyu to go to the town, respe and go back could be spend on just killign a couple of monsters with the respecced skill.
Also you donât have to use skill for them to gain exp.
So if oyu feel like there is a skill that is only worth using after getting like 5 skill points in, but after the respec it only lvl 3, just kill a few enemies with your not respecced skill.
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Iâm kind of tickled that people think 4, 5 or 6 skill points is enough to change how skills feel, apart from a non-specialized skill. You can maybe get a little bit of inc dmg, or -mana cost, or maybe 1 or 2 additional totems. But, usually, until you get over 10 skill points, you arenât actually altering how the skill playsâŚcompared to how it plays non-specialized. The difference between a base skill, and a 5-6 point specialized skill isnât enough to prevent anyone from experimenting with them.
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Yeah, Iâve always said that at that point in the game a higher tier weapon base will do more for your dps & as you say, youâre not getting particularly far into the skill tree to be able to get the interesting/skill altering nodes anyway.
But I do accept/agree that it feels bad to have something previously earned taken away, even if the numerical effect of that is limited.