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Reflect Damage - Build

First of i like to make builds that are a bit out of the box, they don’t have to be 100% min/max but i still try to make them to work in later game :slight_smile:

I have asked a lot of question here on the forum as i like to try build a shapeshifting damage reflect build from the primalist class.

Im just very split between what i thing would be best and most fun.
The Druid class or Shaman Class…

I have 2 builds roughly setup, that i see both good and bad in.
I know its hard to make a build only relay on reflect damage, special against bosses.

Build 1: Shaman Class.

Reflect build that also relay on proc spells to do the damage, as i try to stack very high Attunement as it benefits spells and the damage reflected from Thornshell.
Spam the Thorn Shield ability that also cast Eterra Blessing on cast, and eterra blessing casting healing Totem that is set to generate rage…
As i need a way to make rage in the build without making it a caster build.
There is the spriggaet belt that give rage, but i like the Thorn belt that give more skill points and reflect damage to the attacker.

Ice thorn and Mealstrom is set to cast on hit and when i cast Thorn Shield.

Build 1: Druid Class.

Most of it is setup in the same way as build in, but here it relay on getting rage back by switching form, between bear and spriggan. It also make you able to travle with rampage, and give more health regen by passives and crit avoidens. But has a lot less attunement that makes your spells and ThronShell shield hit for a lot less damage.

So what of the two build do you think can work the best with some tweaks, and what would you change or how would you build it? And is it even possible to make a “OK” build like this?

The healing totem proc’d by Eterra’s Blessing shouldn’t give you Rage since it should be affected by the Ire of Trees node (since that should only affect the Healing Totems you manually cast from Spriggan Form).

I had a build very similar to this but with a staff instead of the wand/shield. You may wish to take the Eterra’s Bulwark node (Thorn Shield can only be cast on yourself) as I found the healing totems & Spriggan often got in the way & Thorn Shield would be cast on them, as well as points in the Bulb Growth node for 30% chance to recast Thorn Shield when it ends (which should give you 30% more Thorn Shields).

For Eterra’s Blessing, I found that the Overgrowth node was useful in keeping my Spriggan alive, but since you don’t have a minion/companion, that’ll be of less use for you, though the Spriggan companion is pretty useful for it’s Aura of Kinship (adds flat spell damage), Aura of Retribution (8% base crit & 72% crit avoidance to make both gearing easier & your damage higher) & Thorny Stalks (up to +18 flat reflect damage per point of Vit) nodes.

I did find that the flat reflect damage tailed off at some point (though this was without the shield) & I was mostly getting damage from the Thorn Burst.

Hi again and thx for the answer.

Its a bit sad if healing totems cast from Eterra’s Blessing don’t use the rage node in the Spriggan Form. I find it very hard to find a good way to generate rage with this setup.

And you make some good points with the nodes. But if i want to generate rage i don’t really have enough points to set in them also.

And the only item that give me more skill points to the spriggan form is a relich, and that slot i use for the reflect damage back unique…

I have been looking a lot on adding the spriggan minion. But i have minion builds and would like to try and work around it, also so all attacks are directed to me as i have the reflect damage.

So how to build around this :D?

I took the node that gave Rage on Spirit Thorns use, but I think someone else used the Rage on Healing Totem to keep things going which would allow you to spend more time spamming Thorn Shield.

The 100% reflect isn’t going to be good since % reflect damage is based on the amount of damage you take after mitigation which should be fairly low since you’ll have a lot of armour (from Thorn Shield), so I’d definitely go with a crafted relic & +2 Spriggan Form.

Also, you’d forgotten the Rosebloom node in Eterra’s Blessing to make it cast on Thorn Shield.

Edit: And as for passives, you’ll want to put points in

  • Totemic Fury (cast speed = more Thorn Shield stacks), probably take them from Ancestral Speed since you get perma-frenzy & haste from 6+ stacks of Maelstrom
  • Wind in the Leaves (cast speed & movement speed)

Ohh i though the 100% damage reflected were raw damage, and i think an read that somewhere… But if it so, you are right that the skill points will be better.

I will try to build something around this :smiley:

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Nope, % reflect damage is after mitigation, so it’s better for minions (that tend not to have much in the way of armour or resists) than it is for the player character.

Unless you build a PC to just face-tank all damage… :wink:

Here is my aspirational build.

I use the average calculation, so there it improvement than can be had. I also notice that some of the stats aren’t calculated in. The real endurance threshold is closer to 800. The real damage returned to attackers is closer to 2500 without any Thorn Shields up. Armour is much higher as it isn’t calculating the Aspects of Might or the Spriggan Form skill nodes, also without any Thorn Shield stacks.

Your % reflect would still be minimal if you’re doing that by mitigation. The only way to get sizeable amounts of % reflect would be to have a massive hp/ward pool to avoid oneshots (which would be harder since you’d have lower mitigation) while also having large amounts of leech/ward gen.

Good luck with that.

:smiley:

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Simples! You should put some sealed affixes on those items as well though. Just to make it more realistic.

I refer you to my prior statement…

Edit: Though you’ve got way too much resist. Get them either zero or negative for “proper” % reflect.

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I quite enjoy others take on reflect builds. Pretty cool.
I have currently been working on a reflect build. I took Paladin for Health skills and stats. Huge HP and regen. Crafted on the lowest amour items to reduce mitigation and didn’t actively take any resistances. Took nodes and gear that increase damage taken to me (Gladiator +15% damage taken, Hammer and Anvil +25% damage taken, Fighting chance gloves +10% damage taken). On the build planner I have 266% reflect (Idols are averaged) The high end is 317% reflect.

I’ve always been a fan of reflect builds and try to create something playable on any game i can lol. Right now im only level 70 but it seems ok right now, probably until i hit the bosses lol

To be fair, there is a reflect Skill in the game (two now, with 0.8.4).

Rebuke is a spell, it deals damage, so is scalable. It’s just that its flawed - it relies on # of hits, so it works awesome in packs, and horribad on bosses.

The new one, Thorn Shield, is a tad better on bosses, but still bad.

That’s flat reflect in a nutshell though, it’s always going to be better for packs than bosses/single target. %reflect would be better for bosses except its after damage mitigation.

Hello!

Im toying with the same thing- One thing you are missing is the summon spriggan node which adds flat ref based on vitality, giving me nearly all of my flat ref.

This is the build im thinking of atm:

The idea being that you dont use spriggan form, but you use hazelroot to trigger your thorn shield by using maelstrom and tornado, which will also be your main solo dps.

Not sure if it will have the boss DPS but clearing should be quite butter smooth.

Its a cool ide, and i had some of the same thoughts with me first build above that also use mealstron but proc from hits and casthing thorn shield.
Like the gloves you are using. If i find them i will try them out :slight_smile:

Zaodon # Llama8

Thorn build has always been a bit funky and bad against bosses/slow attacks in all games like this, but its fun to build around.
In Diablo 3 they tried to fix that by adding a weapon that gave your reflect damage as damage on weapon hit. the problem with that were it was sooo boring and just made it feel like a normal attack build.

A possible way to fix it could be to add an item to the game that give x3 or something, for your reflect damage against bosses or mobs that have not hit you again within 0.5-1 sec. or something like that, it would make reflect builds viable against slow and single target enemies.

There are a few options I can think of. LE knows the difference between any mob and “a boss”. i.e. Bosses are specially coded. (Rares are too, but Rares are usually in packs, so I don’t care about them).

Options:

  1. Reflected Damage deals x% MORE damage against bosses
  2. Reflected Damage recurs (think DoT) X times against bosses
  3. Reflected Damage reflects pre-mitigated damage against bosses

Any of those would be useful for %reflect but not alter power for other targets (packs, arena, etc.).

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Or, using a skill gives reflect damage a % bonus per skill used which is consumed when a mob hits you.

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I like that because in packs it will burn itself off nearly instantly and not add much reflect damage, but against bosses it will naturally add a huge boost. Very elegant!

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No need to sound quite so surprised. :wink: I do have my moments (just ask the wife).

But yes, minimal impact v packs or clear, much larger impact v bosses. And Spires ('cause they take reflect damage as well).