I didn’t say it was comparable. It is required to devote items and/or skills to movement though. Either way though, the one-shots reward players with movement skills. This will push players in that direction for builds. At least it will when they get the ward and insane damage mechanics balanced. (150k ward, 1-shotting end game bosses, should not exist) Which is what the devs wanted to avoid.
Yep that’s the kind of BS boss i didn’t want to see in LE, i’d rather go back to do sirus or UE. Once i’ve figured out it was gonna be painful like that I just maxed void orbs and did all these bosses with half the effort by walking around (which is what in a nutshell all the boss fights want you to do) and keeping the orbs up until the end
I wouldn’t call “Having a movementskill somewhere in the kit” pushing player into a direction. Having movementskills is an advantage, yes, thats just how this games work, don’t get hit, get less damage, not even just from telegraphed mechanics.
But i hold to my point made previously, there is no movementskill required, you just need to get your movementspeed for either stats or skills.
And having a movementskill with cooldown in the kit(currently ALL movementskills have a cooldown, which is goooood), even with limited cooldown reduction opportunities will never make this game ridiculous fast.
You are missing the point. Making the game fast wasn’t the issue. It was making movement skills a requirement to compete that was what should be avoided. I am just saying that the twitch bosses work against that goal.
He means that with these mechanics movement speed becomes the best defense and however we look at it, with for example void rayeh a faster moving char is going to have an easier time than one char without boots and 0 movespeed.
Let me show you with what setup i killed all the MOF bosses by running in circles and touching them only the minimum necessary to get some temp buff and how ridicolously fast it can go already, and i can confirm what darkdeal is mentioning that my next logical upgrade was going to be two movespeed rings
We can argue that the difference between building tanky (and possibly taking and surviving some mechanics) and building movementspeed to simply avoid all mechanics, is too big.
I agree movementspeed(or a movementskill for that matter too) is currently way more valuable than other defenses, at least for most of the boss fights and also alot of trash mob mechanics.
So balancing that out would be a good first step. So that building tanky is more efficient and easy, but still requires noteable investment to fully work out.
But having the opportunity to building for movementspeed as some form of defense is not a bad thing in general i would say.
I know there is a fine line between fast and “too fast”(which is very subjective).
As long as the devs keep all movment skills on a cooldown basis and don’t let them scale with attack or cast speed, we are fine.
1 Like
I can agree with that. It isn’t necessarily the movement that is the issue. It is the one-shot mechanics making tanky builds that much more nonviable. There should be nothing in the game that is a true one-shot. They can have attacks that do crazy damage, or aoe dots that REALLY hurt (don’t stand in it), but there should be a way to have a build tanky enough to buy you time to survive it. I don’t mean the OP ward shenanigans either.
2 Likes
Agreed, if all of those tactics, are (almost) equally viable that is win win for all. Balancing in aRPG’s is really hard, there will be always something better, but bringing all of those things as close together as possible will truly make build diversity shine.
But i think it is really important to make the opportunity costs high enough, so you can’t just facetank with minimal investment.
Especially with the non-scaled bosses if the devs also hit the scaling on all the bosses/timelines properly there is great potential for an awesome feeling progression curve.
(When dying to a boss, building more protections to not get 1-shot anymore, but lose “just” 90% of your hp or building more movementspeed for the next attempt at the same boss)
1 Like
^Yes
But also imo ground dots should not be forcing you to “move or die” either, the mob that casted it is going to dps you with autoattacks on top of the dot and if you take this into account and make a sum of the damages the ground dot should be a soft dps added to the normal attacks, not something that deals even more damage than AAs, or else when you have multiple ones each one spamming a ground dot in staggered order you become unable to stand at all to do melee damage which is something that happens in LE
And about the AOE telegraphs, they can’t be doing crazy dmg either because being aoe you already got to react by moving some distance, now if you are in melee range and get bogged down by multiple monsters that are dpsing you, what happens next, they also start spamming stuff in aoe that also deals more damage than normal, why? And some monsters also happen to have a more dangerous high dmg PBaoe, are slow, are very fat
This is a problem in LE when: you are melee, are leveling, or are in high arena wave.
I got two videos to show the scenarios above in which it is a shutdown for melee because these abilities also deal much higher damage than normal attacks:
I am really trying hard to get your point of view.
I just don’t understand why you insist on AoE stuff to be less lethal or “just be additional incoming dps”
All of this stuff is what makes LE exciting and unqiue for me. Because we already have dozens of aRPG’s where enemy affects (especially trash mobs) are neglectable.
This is one thing LE is trying to make different. Make even some trash mobs relevant.
This is not a “balancing” thing, because the attack is aoe and has a big radiius it needs to deal less damage than a singletarget hit. All of this balancing concerns are for the players character, otherwise everybody would just go full AOE.
The game is throwing obstacles at you that you need to overcome, in LE case: Alot of actual releveant mechanics.
I exclusviely play melee(except for some sorcerer leveling stuff) and i never had the feeling that all of this mechancis are “annoying” or hindering my fun with the game. It’s actually interesting to have something to lookout for and not just brainless clear all trash mob echoes until the boss echo comes.
I would argue that mob types are inconsitently dangerous. Some have mechanics which are neglectable and some are one of the most lethal ones.
We are talking about Bosses here. You aren’t going to be fighting 3 bosses at the same time.
Regular mobs should take damage stacking into account and thus do far less damage than bosses.
If they wanted to make bosses more difficult for evasive movespeed builds, they could have adds that have CC abilities. Snares or slows.
1 Like
Alright so first i would like you to comment on the two videos i posted as proof
And then as melee how you deal in wave 150+ with two beetle queens and a pack of void scorpions, I will tell you it is just some tedius kiting because the queens are spamming a killer dot, the scorps are spamming multiple ground dots.
Or let’s make any other mix, let’s make a crabhead fatty with a flesh boulderman and an ice golem each one basically has a killer AOE
With any mix of these aoe spammers you make a thinking process and say: these abilites that cover the entire place where i need to be to deal my damage actually hurt like triple than normal and there are 3 or more mobs overlapping their spam so what i have to do is move, and then you move and the next mob is going to start another aoe, and then next aoe is coming and so on so all you do is just move out and move out and move out, because these deal so much more damage that it’s not like they are autoattacking you.
So I was doing so much kiting and having no dmg uptime with my miserable rive/vengeance that my build turned upside down into the ultimate VK kiter with void orb spamming and it became the best VK MOF boss killer arena pusher area 55 speedfarmer ever
And the vid posted by another user in which it’s already emerging that it’s better to go glassy 2H with high deeps for such mechanics:
https://www.twitch.tv/ videos/717447725
I don’t find this melee kiting ala poe bosses any exceptional and engaging gameplay rather incredibly annoying after i’ve put so much tank into that char. For the simple numbers and aoe properties cited above i even find these abilities broken and illogical, all i do is moving for my dear 2k life and get 0 damage and let my orbs chip at them. I actually didn’t want to push arena anymore because of the tedium and because ultimately this wasn’t what i wanted to do with a “sentinel”
I’ve said above what is needed is a simple coherent damage (and mob hp) recalc hoping that they won’t powercreep and put the next new mobs with yet again 1mil hp and killer slams but it’s got in a loop already so that’s it i’ve stressed it enough
Ok i get it, you are just talking about arena as it seems. TBH, i don’t play arena myself at all, since i hate that game mode. I think the devs added arena as a patchwork solution to give people somekind of somewhat easy to implement endgame mode where they can push the limits of their chars.
I would say that arena could probably need some rebalancing in general. All i see on very high arena waves is kiting in general, regardless of build(melee or ranged).
The nature of arena makes the gameplay alot different than MoF, in MoF you can choose your own pace and don’t have to pull 3-4 packs at the same time.
All the feedback i gave was solely for MoF and Story content.
1 Like
This happens very commonly while leveling as shown in the lv13 video. They did already fix/remove some mobs that were aoe shotting in the previous patch and buffed chars hp so there is some hope for a further rebalance.
I remember in previous patches i reported mobs were overtuned, as soon as you exited the ruined city at around lv15-20 you encountered lighting spiders that oneshotted your char for 200-300hp with a 1sec ranged aoe, these got removed this patch. Or the wengari dual boss was spamming extreme dmg ice meteors where i died like 20 times with a leveling char, it also got tuned down
Arena akin to a lemans 24h is where numbers are stretched so much that the mobs with wrong hp/skills combos are outlined
You could always play on hardcore if you find the content to easy.
I think you mean Masochist. Hardcore’s not harder, it just adds a bigger cost for failure.
You could always improve yourself and your character if you find the content too difficult.
It’s pretty baby mode with Necro but I think most bosses are, so I’m not sure how valid this feedback is.
Me getting a chick hot:
The only maybe plausible somewhat dispute that I have is I believe during the circling there shouldn’t be any additional projectiles or spells but even that I would/could accept as I like clutch gaming. This was the only time when I got hit during the whole fight.
https://i.imgur.com/prx8Rxm.jpg
Did you had a frenzy, enrage or cooldown modifier?
Weird/Unfair ability overlap usually just happen with one of those two things.
Oyea, that might be it - check the right side( enrage + haste & frenzy) (: