Prophecies shouldn't have a campaign condition by default

You can’t access prophecies until chapter 9. Character progression is pretty linear, there’s no reason to go back to the campaign after this point. Needing to buy a lens to block this feels real bad. I’m fine with the other blocks, that makes sense. Campaign prophecies just shouldn’t exist at all.

Otherwise I love prophecies and CoF in general.


I agree and would like to add, that some other prophecy conditions also need rebalancing.

  • Any arena prophecy is not worth running due to absence of other loot, until you stack at least 10 of them. And even then, one of the conditions is to kill a specific boss. I’ve heard somewhere, that there are special conditions to spawn a specific boss, like total run time. That means that I need to intentionally slow down to complete the prophecy? Bad design
  • Some dungeon prophecy conditions are making the loot worse. For example killing rare monsters or completing a tier 2 dungeon. I don’t want loot from low level area, where all items have worse bases and uniques have less LP.

I’m pretty sure you can complete those in higher tier dungeons.

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That Tier level is just the minimum, so you aren’t being handicapped by the prophecy. The loot doesn’t get worse because of the prophecy, all loot normal for that dungeon (or other area) is still the same, it just adds the additional items from the prophecy, and as I noted about, you can complete the T2 Julra prophecy by defeating a T3 or T4 Julra.

You can’t with your first character, subsequent characters can as soon as they reach the first town. At that point they could go get a prophecy that they will fulfill during the campaign.

EDIT: You can also buy a lens that prevents campaign prophecies.

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??? Huh. Last alt i made after reaching 150c. Could pick a faction but couldnt just jump to CoF faction hide out.

Pretty sure u still either have to have someone port u there or get to CH9 on ur alts

Unless iv run into a bug that doesnt seem to happen consistently

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I’m sorry but is there really campaign prophecies? no offense, I just don’t know.

Yup, I’ve seen ones that require killing Majasa.

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Ooooh, I found that too, but I didn’t know that it is counted as campaign phophecies, You can travel back to that map to kill it, but it is still annoying right?

I disagree. I never take campaign prophecies and I don’t block them either, but the same goes for arenas and mostly for dungeons, too.

But others might like that content, especially low lvl players during their (first) trip through the campaign, so why not have an option for them? Campaign could even make sense for a high lvl player hunting low lvl uniques (remember Andariel nightmare) - only IF zone lvl is taken for prophecies though, which I don’t know.

Also, ancient wisdom: for good loot to exist, there needs to be bad loot - meaning lenses here.

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You can get someone to invite you who has the Waypoint and get there, then you can get there by yourself anytime.

Which you stated in the second line, so I know you’re already aware of that. It’s still a way to get there as soon as you get to the first town and join the faction.

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There’s also one for killing Liath in campaign.

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OK thx

I agree with the reasoning, but I would like to offer another solution:
Zone levels should be scaled on character’s level. They really, really should.

Not just for the prophecies, it would also help a lot with progression and campaign difficulty.
Everything is better with level scaling.

I guess I have been playing too many scaled games in recent years, and they feel SO much better, I really find it hard to come back to fixed-zone-levels games…

I really hope not. I hate level scaling. The only game I can play that has level scaling is GD and that’s because the rest of the game makes up for it.
If LE had level scaling, I’d still probably play it, but I would enjoy it less.

Also, level scaling would require monos and dungeons to be completely remade.

No everything isnt better with lvl scalling. I hate this in D4 and D3 even GD partly why i dont like either of those games among many other reasons. And dont play them to this day.

Lvl scalling ruins the feel og gear progress also removes the ability to out lvl zones

For example cyberpunk 2077. Before the 2.0 update that brought in lvl scalling. U had to scan NPC that where wanted to check there lvl and stats. Just starting out in a new game there are NPC that are wanted at a high lvl. One was at least lvl 30. But now in 2.0 u can just kill this guy right out of the gate in a fresh game. Before this guy would have kicked ur ass

Now with 2.0 adding lvl scalling theres zero need to scan anything other than to check wanted status thats it. Looting gear pre 2.0 also felt more like a looter shooter like borderlands. Pre 2.0 was a mich better game than after 2.0 update. Lvl scalling broke and removed alot of good things about the game pre 2.0

This can also be seen in early skyrim days. At one point it didnt have lvl scalling to where u could go into a dungeon at lvl 2 and find ur self with a dungeon filled with lvl 10+ mobs. Giving u a choice to stay and fight or run for ur life. Now in skyrim that oh shit moment doesnt really happen.

Lvl scalling has more down sides to it than upsides. Only good thing it has going for it is making the lives of devs much easier. Imo thats all it does good at.

Don’t lose sleep, it is not going to happen. Far too late for that, and I am aware a lot of people hate it. :slight_smile:
Although without it, I have to agree with the OP, it is hard to find even a far-fetched reason why there are prophecies in the campaign. Maybe just turn every campaign boss to an improved lvl 100 version once the campaign has been completed?

These two examples (Cyberpunk and Skyrim) are very weird. I am sure they are true, but it is highly unusual.
All the games I have played scale FROM a certain level, i.e. a monster or a dungeon will be lvl 30 or more, but never less. Attack it too early, you’re toast. As shall be.
The scaling is not supposed to make the monsters easier, but exactly the opposite: prevent the character being too OP and making the campaign too easy and completely uninteresting.

However I do realise that

is the main reason why some players dislike level scaling.
They want to faceroll through the game and make sure there isn’t any challenge.
Fair enough, it’s a valid way to play. Just not one I particularly like.

Now the two bits I strongly disagree with:

Scaling is vastly superior to non-scaling in one main thing: it allows players to play the way they like and still get a decent challenge. In other words, it gives freedom: explore in any order you like (for open world games), do side quests or don’t, clean up areas or rush to the exits, you play your way, the game remains interesting.
Without scaling, you have to follow exactly the main path set up for the “average” players. Explore too much, kill too many bad guys, do some of the side quests available (silly move!), and you are overpowered for the rest of the campaign. Boring.
That’s why the campaign in LE 1.0 has become even easier than in 0.9, despite adding more monsters. It should have been the opposite (was probably supposed to) but more xp in a non-scaling environment turns everything upside-down.

And more importantly:

I believe exactly in the opposite, scaling is harder.
Non scaling? Put monsters with damage and HP proportional to the level of the zone. Job done.
Scaling? As the level will be the same everywhere, the difference in atmosphere and difficulty in each zone has to come from something deeper than just level, maybe mechanics, maybe density, different types of attacks and damage… It requires more planning and more work.

Most ARPGs that I have played with level scaling don’t do that. They apply scaling right off the bat. GD, D3 and D4 are the most notorious examples.

I can’t speak for everyone, but personally that isn’t the reason. I hate that RNG can screw you over and you don’t have an easy zone to fall back on.
An example: in D4 I had a stroke of bad luck and didn’t have a good weapon upgrade in over 10 levels. That meant that I went from killing mobs in a second to killing mobs in half a minute. As opposed to D2, for example, where if that happened I could just go farm lower level zones for that weapon upgrade that let me do the jump for the next difficulty.

Likewise, I quite often start doing monos at level 25. It’s quite hard and challenging and I find that very fun. If we had level scaling like in those games, this wouldn’t be possible. The difficulty would always be the same throughout the entire game.

Not to mention the fact that in the last 10-15 levels before level 100 your power increase is minimal, whereas level scaling for mobs doesn’t stop. Which discourages you from continuing to level.

I disagree with this. I can’t play the way I like because every zone I go to is the same. Right now I can take shortcuts or speed run the early zones and play in areas that are 5-10 levels above my own. Or I can take it slow and kill everything and play in areas that are 5-10 levels below my own.
Level scaling removes that choice. Every single area I go to is the same. It doesn’t matter what order I do the campaign in since there’s no effective difference between them.

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Same answer as before, level scales FROM a certain level. Monos should start at 58, and scale with character level above that.
You can do chapters 1, 2 or 3 of Diablo 4 in any order, but they start at a different level. Go straight away to chapter 3 and you will find lvl 15 mobs, even if your character is level 3 (Taking D4 as an example only because you named it as a game with no minimal level).

Rest of your post is fine, we just enjoy different things.

Edit: anyway, while it is quite interesting, I fear I might have derailed the thread (again), so I shall stop there on this subject. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


The only reason I can think of is joining the faction at the first town, having someone invite you to get the Waypoint, then getting the prophecies while going through the campaign since you’re going to kill those enemies anyway.