Problems with paladin Judgment spell, any help appreciated!

Hello!
I’m a bit baffled by what’s happening with my Judgment spell, either I’m doing something very wrong, and in that case, any help, explanation and tooltips would be appreciated, or the spell and it’s interactions are bugged, in which case I’ll be posting on bug section.
Long story short, the tooltip on the spell says it should do 33k damage per second, while on the field it actually does around 200.
I’m playing on maps with 140 corruption.
Here are screenshots:
https://imgur.com/a/HdpsI8L

Thank you very much, and again, any help or explanation would be much appreciated, it’s driving me crazy.

Hey there… Welcome to the forums…

Tool tips are a bit messed up right now so I wouldnt entirely trust the figures that they are showing…

Damage against the dummy at the end of time (or champions gate) is probably a better reference point - with that divided by about 10 should be valid figures against mobs in empowered monoliths…

That mob you are fighting is also fire resistant specifically… which will mean MUCH less damage against it…

Also… are you scaling Judgement with healing effectiveness? Judgement really only shines if you do - its generally lacklustre if you dont…

EDIT: for more help you would have to post your build - Last Epoch Build Planner (upload option on the icons on the left).

Hello and thank you for the reply!
Against dummies, my damage is 2k, so it’s about right about the /10 damage decrease against mobs.
I’m scaling all my attacks with spell and fire damage mostly, plus some attunement.
But in conclusion, the tooltip is misleading and not accurate?

Welcome ot the LE Community!

Judgment is a tricky skill to show actual “dps”.

It has a initial hit component, which is a melee attack and the consecradted ground is a Spell.
So both parts of this skill can be scaled differently.

Also tooltip dps for cooldown skills is very tricky.

Using the trainings dummy to compare different setups is good enough to compare gear/passives etc. The actual numbers don’t matter that much.
Especially for DoT skills like consecrated ground its very easy, because DoT skills do not have a +/-25% variation.

But your numbers sound very low, what level are you and what kind of weapon are you using?

If oyu don’t mind you could share your character using Dammitt’s Build Planner (top left load character from save file).

This way we might be able to give some more concrete tips how to imrpove your character, if that is your desire.

But definitely don’t value tooltip dps too much.

Fur spammable skills, that don’t have a cooldown tooltip dps is a very good indicator, but for cooldown skills or skills with a lot of mana cost its less useful.

Thank you for your reply! What a wonderful community!

Here is my build, ignore the extra useless strength, I’m in the process or re-gearing. Judgement is not my main source of damage, Flame Burst from Holy Aura is, I use Judgement for extra damage (or not) and healing.
Later edit: updated build https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/volVwy6Q

Be interesting to see how well this kind of build works… I dont think anyone has tried a holy aura flame burst as a main dps skill - I think its been many patches since I have seen a build that even had it spec’d as part of Holy Aura…

Offensively you seem to have 800%+ increased damage of the appropriate types so that should be good enough… Holy Flame Burst - Last Epoch Skills seems to have 70 flat fire damage and some nice added damage scaling… so it looks on paper like it should work ok… more adaptive spell damage would likely be very effective - might be interesting to see if any uniques could help…

What I am not sure about is the 6 hits to proc it… might end up being too much unless there is some other interaction at play… like stacking fire shreds or something else to make up for what is effectively dividing the damage by 6 (each hit)… and warpath only counting 60% towards a hit…

Defensively you need to get your Crit avoidance up to 100% - end game is hard without it The overcapping of your resistances isnt needed…

I’m glad you noticed my main source of damage, it works decently.
Holy Flame burst seems to scale best with added fire damage, then adaptive spell damage, and lastly with attunement.
Regarding the 6 hits (more with warpath) needed to proc the flame burst, its actually quite fast. Dual wield counts as 2 hits per spin, and with enough attack speed, it’s more then enough. I’m missing some attack speed right now, I’m only at 90. The main ingredient here is enough crits combined with crit power and attack speed.
I do have crit avoidance 150, maybe a bit too much.
Here is my updated build, if you are interested:
https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/9Qna6q1A

P.S. Any thoughts on Judgement? It has a ton of damage on paper, but hits like a wet noodle.

Ok… CA on the new build plan is way overboard… there is no point in getting more than 100% so you could see if you could use an affix/passive for something else…

Hits… ok… so long as its proc’ing fast enough that should negate my concern… Its tempting to mess around with…

Judgement… Honestly, the only time I have ever been able to use judgement with any success is when you stack healing effectiveness which would be virtually impossible to do on your build setup now - there simply isnt any way to add another affix to your mix…

See this kind of setup Paladin, Level 83 (LE Beta 0.8.4e) - Last Epoch Build Planner where there is almost 1000% healing effectiveness (effectively 200 adaptive spell damage plus massive boost to healing) and 40+ attunement to make Judgement into a mana nuke to suppliment Smite procing skills like Multistrike etc.

It will be interesting to see if this Flame Burst build hits a plateau in empowered monoliths…

This build does very well against large numbers of enemies, with warpath procing flame burst instantly and it hits all enemies, melting them if it crits. It’s a bit on the slow side, though, against bosses and single target enemies, because it takes more to proc. The melee damage itself from warpath is non-existent.
I’m struggling a bit now on 200 corruption, mainly because I’m missing some attack speed and have some unoptimized items, like you noticed already, I have too much CA, and a few other resistances are over the top.
Thank you very much for your responses!

Some thoughts on Judgement.

You probably don’t need Cleansing Light and Expedite, because CL is redundant with a node you’ve got in Holy Aura Maybe take a point out of Sanctified Serenity and Sacred Sword. Put those four points towards 2 in Divine Destruction and Scourgebane. That can help give it a little more uuumph against bosses and rares.

You also don’t have Decree of Flame in Sigils. That’s missing out on a really big punch of damage, but you’d also have to spec out of that bottom part of the tree because whenever you heal with those you’re losing sigils. I’d put the rest into Iron Sigils. That’s +3 flat fire damage per sigil (12 total since you’ll have 4) and 800 armor. That’s tanky and punchy at the same time. :smiley:

But @vapourfire is completely right in that Judgement is only going to pack a punch (and it’s actually a pretty good punch) with Healing Effectiveness everywhere you can in gear.

I’d also recommend some things with gear

I don’t think the boots or the helmet are doing you as much good as two good RARES or even better EXALTEDS, so I’d consider doing the hunt to look for some.

I did a flame burst try on my paladin and it didn’t go well, so I’m looking forward to seeing how this feels for you.

My two cents. Everyone’s mileage may vary. I love Paladins. :smiley:

Two suggestions that can greatly increase damage:
Using Volatile Reversal every 2.4 seconds, it grants 30% attack speed and increases enemies damage taken by 60% for 4 seconds. These are stackable, meaning 2 VR can get 60% attack speed (proc more flame burst) and 120% taken (damage increased by 2.2x).
Fire Timeline Blessing can be replaced with fire resist shred, which will improve your fire resistance penetration against dummy from 200% to 300% (damage increased by 1.5x).

Thank you all for all the wonderful suggestions, some I have already implemented in my build, with visible improvements.
A truly marvelous community!
Cheers!

You sure about that?

Ok ok… My brain cannot remember back that far… and to be honest, I totally missed that build from EpochBuilds… no idea why…

Holy Fire Warpath was my first build in this game, you used to be able to get T1 attack speed on a Prophecy Wand and Rahyehs pull would pull all the mobs into a juicy pack exploding them all

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