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Please make dungeons less punishing

I think it’s good to have challenging endgame progression systems but I feel that dungeons are too punishing in their current state.

Some of my reasons why:

  • If you die at any point you have to completely restart the dungeon. It’s frustrating to dominate the trash mobs and then get to the boss and get one-shot.

  • Bosses seem to be heavily tuned against immobile builds or melee builds. One example is the boss at the end of Lightless Arbor. The area of effect on his one shot ability is so large and it comes so quickly that it’s nearly impossible to dodge unless you have some sort of movement ability on your action bar.

I’d personally love to see something like extra retry attempts at the boss. That way if I make a dumb mistake I can try again rather than exhausting my key and starting from square one.

What do others think of dungeons?

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Lots of similar posts about dungeons expressing the same two issues.

IMHO, it’s got a lot to do with how parts of the game are designed - telegraphed one shot mechanics are part of LE and the devs have expressed on numerous occasions that they don’t want static face tanking type build to dominate. They want dynamic play incorporating different skills to counter content without needing respec depending on the next boss you face.

Dungeons also come in varying levels of difficulty (tiers) so it’s fairly easy to run dungeons without them being very hard. Higher tiers are especially intended to be hard as this is end game content and gates pretty high level rewards and unique game features (like making legendary gear - also typically targeted for late to end game). Dungeons are also optional content so they can be done at any time, whenever you are ready.

It’s hard content, and the game needs challenging content.

The one thing I do think that does need consideration is the learning curve… most dungeon content especially boss fights needs the player to learn the mechanics and failure can be frustrating when you have to start again. Perhaps a reduction in dungeon rewards at the lowest tier could allow for a fair compromise where dying allows you to continue without keys and/or from the previous stage in the dungeon. This I would consider appropriate for new players/ casuals.

2 Likes

This is something that definitely is an issue with learning the fight.

Because this is the most lethal and oppressive ability and it comes very early into the fight.

It is very hard to learn how the boss behaves.

But once you realise how this mechanic work, it is incredible easy to deal with, because it’s very predictable. And it’s not really an issue for melee builds if you know that. (you can throw the amber onto the kindling and stay in the middle of the platform, where dodging this ability is very easy and doesn’t require a movement skill.

If the dungeon key were required to access the loot after killing the boss rather than to enter the dungeon, that would help a lot.

3 Likes

Feel like that would just complicate things further, next you know the devs get complaints about how rubbish it is players did the dungeon and now need a key to get the loot?

How about a fair-play system? The first time you enter a dungeon, you get a extra life (or 2) as a one time thing, call it Tier 1 introduction.

I think a “multiple tries” system for T1 and T2 would be fine. Maybe T1 has 3 tries and T2 has 2 tries.

It still doesn’t solve the issue of learning the fight for higher tiers though.

Some mechanics on lower tiers are basically negligible and you don’t really learn them until they 1-shot you in T3 and T4

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Yeah, there’s always going to be people complaining, either that they don’t get enough tries at the boss because they run out of keys or that they did the boss but don’t have keys to get the loot.

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Yeah, you watch them in lower tiers, but you don’t learn them until you’re dead.

All these issues are discussed to death by now. But yeah, if I have to pick and choose:

  • If I fail, I want to try the boss again without dealing with the two huge maps again.
  • Lightless harbor is a bit off: there’s no reason for clearing anything on the way.
  • Soulfire Bastion is doubles down on the restart thing: Unless you reach the point you are able to kill the T4 Boss consistently, collecting all the souls only to be probably one-shotted is demoralizing at best.
2 Likes

You should be able to respawn at bosses there is no reason why should this game be so only for cheaters, most op builds and masochists.

What are dungeons? I’ve heard of them, but since Dungeon Keys never drop, they are mostly just a myth.

There’s an extremely wide spectrum between “You can’t respawn at a boss when you die to it” and “The game is only for cheaters, OP builds, and masochists”.

You aren’t going to be taken very seriously if you continue with such hyperbole.

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Well check the arena leaderboards there are full of cheaters and most op builds thats the current player base and no you wont seem them complain that the game is too difficult on forum ofc, not.

the arena ladders have been effectively defunct for years now. extrapolating anything from that is futile and pointless.

plenty of people have discussed dungeon difficulty… there are lots of thread about this very subject with possible solutions and consideration on how to improve it for newer players, casuals and others.

I have max 85 lvl char so I can comment only on tier 3 dungeons and dying and starting over is so annoying. I heard from all sides that T4 is much harder so I am not even leveling my chars anymore. There will be wipe with multiplayer patch so no reason to play now.

But the game with multiplayer patch gets huge infux of new players and something should be done about dying in dungeons, I dont think majority would like it.

Which bring another question, if you go with friend into dungeon and you die at begining you will have to wait for your friend to finish it whole like 20 minutes as he finish it all on his own, will be the dificulty changed to player 1 if second person die? Waiting for friend and not able to play with him until he finish will be extremely annoying.

There isn’t going to be a wipe, just that the current offline characters won’t be transferred into the EHG’s MP servers but you’ll still be able to play them.

That’s what happens in any MP game where you can’t just rejoin, ie, in PoE if you’ve run out of portals.

Yes, dieing sucks, but unless it’s a bug, it’ll be down to either the player ####ing up, not knowing the mechanics or the build not being capable of doing it. Everything except bugs are in the player’s gift to improve or rectify.

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You seem confused. This is a thread about dungeons. Arena leaderboards are completely irrelevant.

Perhaps doing difficult content is not for you, then.

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Nah you dont understand and you are confused, logicaly same ppl who cheat in arenas are the same ppl who play dungeons …

Huh? What possible facts do you have to support that assumption?

Beyond just guessing? (refaining from being vulgar here)…

Edit: I play dungeons all the time, does that make me an arena cheater? Seriously?

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What people may or may not do in arenas doesn’t have anything to do with dungeons.

Unless you’re trying to claim that dungeons are too hard for you just because they’re balanced around cheaters, in which case… LOL

That’s a bit… random at best.

Some people like the boss challenge of dungeons, others, like me, don’t dislike the challenge, but I only go there once per difficulty to see if I can beat it, or to get the final reward when I need it.

Arena doesn’t properly address how powerful you are, is a challenge in a very specific way, as the system encourages kiting enemies at some point, there’s no timer so beefy builds with cheap attacks (ranged, or better yet, you can place damage and run) are best fit for the task. A great build for high corruption echoes can be a horrible build to climb arena.

Cheating has little to do with liking or disliking endgame systems.