Please, don't play the fun police

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21

Sadly, we need to get used to it. It is the way of things. The moment you have a full release with a seasonal ladder you bring in the competitive types for whom the ladder is everything. And as a result the players just here to have fun will suffer. Always happens, Always will.

Now I am all for bug fixes that allow ridiculous exploits to be fixed asap. I am also for balance in the game. But balance only as a concept or aspiration. Not balance taken to the obsessive level we are seeing here. That’s when the game starts to suffer because the devs find themselves trapped in a corner, not daring to add anything fun to the game in case they upset the Ladder Police.

I guarantee to everyone reading right now… this complaining and calling for nerf will never end. NEVER. No matter what the devs do there will some toxic competitive types posting on these forums because some stranger is unacceptably higher (in waves) than they are on the ladder.

I asked someone in another thread what gap was acceptable. i.e what is the highest gap (in waves) between the highest build in the ladder and the next highest, that you could accept was purely down to build, gear and skill. And the answer was 100 waves. So basically if someone see another build more than 100 waves ahead of the next highest build they are going to call for NERFS. How unhealthy is that? Yet that mentality is what we are dealing with.

These threads will go on forever. Will never stop - until either we (well the devs) stop listening to their nonsense, or every non-ladder player gets sick of it and just moves on.

Let’s not forget that the ladder means you play arena. Most people hate arena and always have. Few people play it. Even fewer play it regularly in a competitive manner. These people are a very vocal minority. Keep that that in mind. Let’s hope the game isn’t ruined because the devs are forced to stay within the mythical and nonsensical 100 wave gap. We need to be adding stuff because it’s FUN, end of story.

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22

This one is true 100%. Stuff that is bad and outdated needs to be made fun. Stuff that is fun because it comes from a buged interaction should be bugfixed and after that it should be seen if it i still fun when it works like intended or if it should be made fun.

Then again having Diablo 3, 2.0 because people only care about fun I’m out. EHG put out some metrics and they want to have the endgame arround 300 corruption. If they stay true this get ready for dozens of pages of nerfs ^^.

At the end of the day we need to repsect EHG’s authoritah because it’s their product.

23

Not in the minds of the Ladder Police. THAT is the root problem. If a build is beating them by more than some arbitrary number of waves that they personally deem acceptable, then it is declared overpowered. “Top tier” is not in their vocabulary. Skill, gear and build are NOT a factor in their reasoning. QED

24

Tell that to people who are working on their leaderboard position and who are being screwed over by other EXPLOITING a massive bug … in most other online games I play those players would likely face at least a temporary ban for ‘exploiting’ which most TOS explicitly don’t allow.

Me, I don’t care about leaderboards, I don’t consider LE a competitive game but many do and these exploiters have ruined the experience so far for that kind of player.

3 Likes
25

Work harder! Jokes aside this is a problem for what fraction of the playerbase? I haven’t looked at the leaderboards and don’t know how many entrys are there. At the end it boils down to the point of view. Do you want everything to be fun and awesome and have powercreep or do you want everything as much as possibly balanced and disallow what people think is fun and worst case make them leave the game and never come back?

From my point of view EHG is in a place where they only can make wrong descissions for one side or the other. Imagine, as I said many times, they stick to their guns and balance all classes arround 300 corruption for next season. People will be completely out of their mind after reading dozens of pages of nerfs to skills, passives, items and whatnot.

At the end the question boils down to what is fun for each player. Both views on the topic are valid and best case EHG keeps the fun alive while balancing stuff according to their goals.
Personaly I would drop LE like a hot potato if they can’t manage to balance builds arround their goal of 300C. I don’t care if there are classes that manage to do 500C because they are strong with the last patch. I won’t be mad if there was a newly nerfed class that isn’t able to do more then 250C and needs to be buffed over time. If there are still classes that run 3k corruption I would simply think EHG isn’t able to make stuff working and I don’t want to participate in this because it makes me unhapyy for personal reasons.

That’s just me and in the big picture I’m just a drop in the water when it comes to player numbers and my point of view is very specific and I have high hopes EHG comes up with a compromise state of the game I can be happy with and as many other different thinking players as well. After all it’s just my view of things and most likely not the best thing to do by any means.

26

Nah, the problem would be if EHG has no personal metrics for that situation.
If the ladder police demands stuff but it’s in another direction then those people then those people simply don’t have luck with it.

So if it’s ‘if you can reach above 700 corruption’ (as an example) seen by EHG as ‘that’s too much’ and hence nerfing the build accordingly that a ‘mediocre skilled player’ can reasonable do it to that degree then it’s all fine and dandy.
The same goes for the minimum, if a build doesn’t reach ‘minimum 200 Corruption’ (another example number) with ‘reasonable equipment after xyz time invested’ then this needs a buff.

The metric for balance is different for everyone. The point is that the ladder police is right in that too vast disparity isn’t good for the game.
The other people are also right that too little of that on the other hand is the same issue.

EHG needs to decide where they want their target audience to be and choose accordingly, not us. We’ll see the outcome, they’ll see the results in player engagement… the result will be that either they’re happy with it and it stays or they’re not and it changes.

But the process needs to be there in the first place.

Yes, and I can understand that position and it sucks.
It needs to be addressed because it’s a problem.

Choosing a build by number crunching beforehand and thinking it’s a great choice is fine, even if disparity between builds exist.

Doing that work and having it invalidated because the numbers displayed are simply wrong or mechanics interact wrongly with one another on the other hand is not.

Doesn’t matter.
It exists, there’s a system in place for those people and hence it has to be properly addressed.

If they wouldn’t care about ladders then EHG shouldn’t have implemented them. As soon as they do they’re responsible to provide a enjoyable environment for those using them.

Umh… neither?

So where does that leave us if I want a middle-approach?

Ohhhh… that sounds like we’re in for…

A compromise.

You know, something which doesn’t endlessly frustrate one side while also not doing the same for the other. Acceptable, would’ve liked it different… not a big issue though.

Exactly that, especially since it long-term causes MG to be a joke… well… more of one it already is with the RMT mess happening and the wrongly assigned access restrictions for gear.

27

Feels bad to invest in a build that is going to get nerfed, so I prefer it get nerfed sooner rather than later.

Feels worse for everyone else that a broken build allows the farming of extreme corruption levels, where a player is gaining an unfair advantage not available to anyone else who is not playing that build. Now that the Auction House has been made real, this is a huge detriment to the integrity of the trade system.

Nerf bugged builds right away please.

28

What brings us to the question what enjoyable is. Before EHG made their survey they were okay with leaving bugs intentionaly in their game and maybe that’s enjoyable to them? Don’t know.

Neither is the best possible outcome. Call me an optimist with experience but I think things will go south because they will make a part of the playerbase unhappy no matter what they do.

29

I think the HH granting Ward that scales with Healing is potentially a design mistake on part of EHG, rather than a bug. Like I said, that’s up to them, the thing technically does what the tooltip says, namely convert “*all of healing hands’ healing”. To me, that wording includes healing effectiveness.

And yes, you can pick the Vampiric Pool node never having read the forums and somehow think it’s intended behaviour, so “using a bug” would have been the better word choice there.

As for what is broken: To me that depends on the design intent. EHG never wanted Vampiric Pool to give you 40% minion HP, (I assume) so it’s a broken thing that needs fixing.

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30

No problem. UInt64 has D3-levels of scalability :wink:

Jokes aside, I would be fine if the node in HH would just remove the healing effect on “missing %”-users all-together, without granting any ward. Maybe some non-stackable ward retention for 4 seconds instead.

31

I think it was intended that way but sadly the numbers exploded for whatever reason ^^.

Tinfoilmode I guess there was a last minute patch before launch that tweaked some numbers as well that broke some stuff a bit.

Balance takes time and depending on the ammount of community testers they have and other testing personal things will be buged or overpowered. This happens to studios 100x bigger then EHG as well so I just give it time untill things pan out.

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32

It’s NOT fine, for the 20000th time.
This game has a Marketboard and Economy and Leaderboards.
It’s fine if it was only an offline game and there was no trading. As it is right now playing the extremely busted builds is the best way to get rare items and favor and manipulate the market.
With High Corruption you get more EXP, which means more Favor and that means more power to manipulate the market. Also better drop changes and more change for high LP uniques which can then be sold.
It also makes the whole build/theorycrafting aspect of the game pointless as you will NOT be able to find a cool fun build that can overtake the meta because the meta is WAAAAY too far ahead of anything else that is not abusing this mechanic.

It’s NOT about the power it’s about how it skews online gameplay.
I’d be fine with having this busted build around if it was CoF only and banned from leaderboards.

1 Like
33

Not everything that’s enjoyable should be done though as it affects other people.
Having bugs and not fixing them or working on fixing them is providing a broken aspect of a product to the customer. Which is insincere, albeit unavoidable. It becomes a problem if it’s done intentionally or through sheer negligence, otherwise it’s fine.

But well, coming back to the enjoyable part… I would enjoy to slap some people giving idiotic arguments at times as well, but I don’t do it since it wouldn’t be right to do so… not all enjoyable things are supposed to be done :stuck_out_tongue:

Hopefully you’re wrong there, we can’t hope for much else.
And well… no matter what decision you make, someone will always be affected in a negative way. The point is to make the decisions which keep in line with the identity of your product as well as the biggest amount of the playerbase as possible.

That alone suffices I would say, depending on the overarching goal.

34

Are there any builds at all that would fall into that category? Just because a build has had its ward reduced from ~100k to 20k or so doesn’t mean it’s not the same build…

Yeah, I’m ignoring them 'cause they obviously need fixing.

I’m not sure it’s just the ladder’s fault. I think that now woth people making videos with, or without, clickbaity titles you’re shining a light on imbalance & I’d imagine most devs would want to brong things broadly into line such that most buolds can either do or face similar levels of challenge by most content.

True, but fun means different things to different people which gets me back to my earlier question, or a varient of it, who defines what is fun and what isn’t?

Yeah, that’s their fun. Is it ok for “us” to say that’s not ok?

Yeah, I get both sides of the argument.

And yet fixing them takes time & testing to make sure you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.

35

My stomach is usually a good indicator. If I want to throw up playing a build, it’s not fun, but if it feels like the smooth delight of chocolate cake, that’s another story,

36

All without comparing your build to what other people have?
How can you? Is that allowed? :astonished:
:rofl:

37

I’d rather be encouraged to try different builds/class/playstyle. Right now I feel like i’m wasting my time (efficiency wise) not playing meta (which is less than 10% of the options).

2 Likes
38

Sure, I have learned to cook myself and a good idea about what I like. I might browse some recipes occasionally for inspiration, but never look at the calories to form a decision, nor do I expect every dish to contain meat or have a lack thereof. I like a mixed diet. If the dish of the day hits the current food trend, it’s merely by accident, and often I’m not even aware that it is the newest junk that is praised as superfood.

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39

so whats your issue with this update then?

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40

This is a 3-months cycle. It’s a marathon, not a sprint.