Hello everyone
Have you ever considered standing in front of a player with your hard-looted “high-end” gear and showing them what ARPG hack-n-slash pro is all about?
Do you think you’re a good player if you follow a guide?
You can only really tell when you compete against other players.
PvP guides are almost never sufficient for any game of this genre.
That’s exactly the appeal of playing Last Epoch, but unfortunately, despite several requests, I haven’t received a response from the developers yet.
Is PvP planned?
Is it even a possibility?
I’d like to know what’s going on.
What do you think? Doesn’t the looting (+ difficulty level) get too boring for you?
I don’t think PvP is planned, and if it was released I’d never play it.
PvP in ARPGs is absolute ass. You would have to rebalance EVERYTHING, because right now you have DPS in the hundredthousands to millions while your HP is in the low thousands, meaning that you’d insta-die to Erasing Strike, Umbral Blade or what have you.
But even if the game was rebalanced for PvP, it would still suck, because the abilities are designed to be used against hordes of enemies, not a single guy.
The only “PvP” this genre can handle well is something like Diablo 3s weekly dungeon, where everyone has the same build and tries to be the fastest pilot, or crucible times in Grim Dawn between people playing the exact same build.
Mike gets asked about this all the time and he always answers that it is something he’d like to add eventually (emphasis on the eventually).
Most likely in a similar way to PoE where you get a PvP zone and you can’t PvP outside of it.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of ST skills.
D2 did PvP pretty well (except the part where you could aggro someone anywhere), where most classes had enough PvP builds available to allow those that wanted it to enjoy it.
In fact, balance for PvP in D2 was actually better than PvE balance.
I hope they concentrate on making the game a realy good PvE experience before they even start to look into PvP. In my opinion they have a long way ahead as of right now to even think about adding different game modes.
I want to see pvp gameplay in this game but i don’t know how to balance it. For example: i think builds using dot damage as main damage will dominate because it ignores parry, blocking, dodge and armour. And in diablo-like games all adequate builds have a potential for up dps to counts much more than maximum hp or ward of any character. I think in practice pvp in LE will be as in PoE where pvp in style: who oneshot whom faster. But if developers will balance pvp good i think this game will be much more interesting.
I played Diablo 2 PvP for years, and that’s where my interest comes from.
I spent at least a third of my entire game time in PvP, and it was my absolute best PvP experience ever. (Except with a group of friends, which is even more fun ^^)
Sure, the balancing is terrible. As you said, it’s even worse in PvM. I don’t see it that way, but a lot of it is unbalanced, yes.
There will always be a best character with the best skill. It was already the case in Diablo 2, too, that there are stronger and weaker ones.
But one thing must not be forgotten: there’s more to the gameplay and the combination of skills and items than the balancing itself. It’s incredible what you can get out of it, and it’s possible to be prepared for anyone.
Plus, it’s a fast-paced game. You have to be able to play your character really well and, at the same time, correctly assess your opponent. That requires a bit of multitasking and a lot of practice. caster, ,melee, or ranged player with fast movement… You’re always learning and have to keep rebuilding.
PvM feels more like the intro of the full game when u learning pvp xD
I think most people are upset about the balancing. Rightly so, but most of them don’t play PvP at all.
So they have no idea what it’s like and how good some players are…
There’s one more thing I’d like to say: including an area where you can compete against other players and don’t have to complete a quest should be enough for now.
I’m convinced that they should start now so there’s enough player feedback and to create some balance.
It really doesn’t take much programming to set up a PvP zone, and it will pay off in the end.
I won’t give up hope that LastEpoch will patch a PvP option xD
mhm mhm
Regarding balancing,
I don’t understand programming language, but an RPG hack-and-slash game should be chock-full of mathematical formulas.
That tells me that PvP balancing should always be calculated using relatively similar percentages.
Balancing PvP is more of a lot of work than it is difficult to handle it.
the peaks from dmg and def…
What do you think?
What aversion? I just want them to make one game mode good and as bugfree and flawless as possible with everything in place. On top of this they lack behind when it comes to the missing story chapters.
I have no aversion against PvP I have an aversion against half backed games that are hold togheter by bandaid fixes. Noone would be helped if they implement something right now that would lead to more work and what would be published in a bad state because it was built on a flawed foundation.
Balance is very tricky. It’s not a simple formula, but a huge formula full of interconnecting parts. Change one part and it will affect a dozen different builds.
It’s easier to create balance for PvE than it is for PvM. That is because in PvE you’re dealing millions of damage on mobs that have millions of health, but for PvP you need to have enough reductions so you only deal hundreds or very low thousands (otherwise everyone gets one-shot).
I’m not against having a PvP zone like PoE has (I never interact with it, but it doesn’t bother me either). But I don’t think we’ll get one until the PvE balance has been mostly “fixed”, because that’s when it becomes easier to address the PvP balance.
And that has to come after most builds do comparable damage. If PvP were scaled such that the best builds only did a few hundreds of DPS then “bad” builds would do single digit (if that).
My English isn’t exactly the best, and I didn’t mean to express what I have that way, but sorry.
So, there is no such thing as a flawless RPG hack-n-slay game, and there never will be… that’s for sure.
I know that a game like this consists of many, many formulas. The formulas are the main core and also ensure the correct balancing.
Dmg, dmg/s, reducing, I think those are the three most important for balancing.
So, if I think logically, the PvP formula looks relatively similar for almost every skill and every class. You just have to roughly convert from 100 to 1 mil… whatever.
But once you get it right and calculate an average value, it’s just more typing.
Then when I think of “Excel” from long ago at school…
Formulas everywhere in the fields, which the producers must have placed in the engine.
I imagine it as a kind of pyramid.
So, why should you have to recalculate every skill and every attack?
I think it’s pretty quick. The problem will be cooldowns, temporary invulnerability, and damage per second.
Many PVM builds wouldn’t be playable in PvP at all… yes, that’s normal because you also rely on area damage, which is generally unnecessary in PvP.
Back to a bug-free game
RPG hack-n-slash games have been around since about 1997 (Diablo 1), and how many releases can you name up to now?
A maximum of 10, but I think there are only 7 or 8 developers.
There’s a good reason for that…
It’s pure mathematics and prone to errors like no other game.
players running around so fast if you’re not the flash you cannot reach them.
players using skills that effectively hit the entire screen and do a gazillion damage can nuke newbies to oblivion.
if your build is purely chaos damage and your opponent is using chaos inoculation, you literally cannot damage him.
pvp in d2 is better since the game pace is slower, but can be ridiculously STUPID in certain circumstances. i once watched a match between 2 very strong paladdins.
the entire match was them hitting each other, stationery. until one died. PEAK PVP EXPERIENCE LMFAO.
personally i feel anyone asking for pvp in a d-like are just finding an excuse to prolong their playtime. as long as the game is not balanced/gap between players are insanely large. then all notion of PVP is just masturbatory. and yes i’ve seen some players even issue challenges on global "kill my character win 100divines! ". people get to that point when they have absolute godly gear/hyper optimized build and at that point pvp is just a way for them to feel smug when their opponents can barely scratch them.
even in GD pvp can be stupid when aoes can be quite large.
to me PVP only matters when skill outweighs gear by a significant amount.
so nah. i really would rank PVP very low on the list of priorities. even if EHG implements PVP, it will be the exact same as POE where it is largely ignored and there is no reason to PVP.
any attempts to make PVP be more rewarding would require the reward to be so good that it could actually alienate players who dont like pvp “best x in the game can be obtained only from PVP” - “the game is not for me”
