That answer makes no sense at all. the monster damage alone should make a level 60 character pretty much impossible to run in a level 90 area.
why in the world would you add a specific mechanic for that situation ?
if you take a level 60 character in a level 90 area it should be a threat because the enemies can kill you really easily.
The problem obviously is more present to players that push high difficulty regularly. I’m aware of the discussion between the “vets” like @McFluffin pointed out. Out of lack of own experience I never felt affected by that.
Due to the past few community events we had, I pushed some builds and now I feel affected, although I’m not currently on levels some of the high level players here.
But the level of frustration I already encounter makes me want to speak about it. I feel like that for 2 patches now. It’s not gamebreaking, but something that bothers me from time to time.
At some point also casual players - that don’t have a big issue when they start - at some point will be there, where I’m currently am and other players already are for a while.
It has become easier to reach higher difficulty because of mechanical changes and introduction of more powerful items and how well known the game mechanics are nowadays thanks to guides created by pro players.
This exactly what I thought, too. The stun formular is a relic from the old times where the whole concept of defense was without hard caps. It should be adjusted to the new standard.
That’s absolutely ok. This is related to player skill and awareness. I’m fine with that, too.
That is also true. The purpose of my post is not to make enemies weaker to push higher numbers of waves.
The problem I have is with the effect the stun mechanic has at higher difficulty and that the player has no chance to work around. Were just presented a mechanic that accelerates/escalates way to quickly. The player has nothing to counter it.
EHG could also get rid of crit avoidance and say “at one point you should be critted and oneshot because enemies scale infinite”. But instead they have this mechanic that you can work with and delay that point where you get oneshot. And this is fun. The player gets control about the situation and a tool to get into higher difficulty.
If stun is meant to be the softcap mechanic to prevent hardcore players to progress infinite, then why have stun avoidance at all?
Also getting stunned feels more frustrating than being oneshot. Getting oneshot ends your run immediately. It’s frustrating, but it’s over.
Getting stunned by a small spider rendering you immobile and locking you from using any escape mechanics, forcing you to watch your character die is worse.
That’s why I think the stun mechanic doesn’t add to the experience. I get the reasoning behind it. But I don’t think the current mechanic is fun.
It looks like a problem for the “elite” that won’t affect everybody. But I think this is already shifting and not the case anymore.
In the meantime or as “ultima ratio” you could introduce that during a stun you are still allowed to use any movement skill.
→ I mean, the Warpath already says: “You cannot be stunned while spinning.”
So you want a stun to not actually stun?
If you really are subject to a stun every time you get shot, you can/could at least escape once every few seconds with a movement skill. But then I would also concede this to the opponents.
→ Was just an idea.
Personally, I also very rarely build such glass cannons, so I’ve never really had problems with stun-lock-like and so on.
The issue that is presented here really is not about glass-cannon/squishy builds.
Quite the contrary, even when you did invest into a lot of defense, stun is still something that affects you and makes it feels bad, because there is not a lot of things you can do to counter that mechanic.
Yeah you are right but on the other hand I think it needs to stop somewhere. Right now I get the feeling that over the time people managed to be able to counter everything somehow after it was a topic on the forums.
The stun formular needs an overhaul and the bumbers need a tweak and players as well as enemys need to be stunned every now and then. Just play PoE without stun immunity it’s the same thing but I think in LE it just needs some number crunching to find a sweet spot.
Yeah, if you’re going to get stunned that frequently, you likely don’t have enough hp/ward to survive in the content you’re doing (given how stun works). LE isn’t like PoE where the objective is to go as hard glass cannon as you possible can to kill everything before it has a chance to spawn & kill you.
Stuns should be less frequent and maybe give players access to immunity for duration whether that be naturally through the mechanic or gear.
I agree stuns are far too frequent and it’s only gotten worse with defense changes. It’s not the mechanic itself that feels bad, but the frequency of which it happens.
there is immunity for a duration, 1s . it’s in the game guide, and i think it’s safe to assume that window was put in there so you would not get stun locked.
1s is definitely enough time to use a move skill and GTFO of dodge.
unless of course your move skill needs a target, LOL, in which case it will only take you to the boss.
Extend the duration, then 
or as I said allow players to access a modifier that affects this.
Just here to add my support for Lone and wait for my snarky Llama comment.
Ive played for over 1k hours and over 300+ Corruption and never notice being stunned in this game.
Compare to PoE where you actually get stunlocked to death in the first area in the game - stun isnt an issue at all in this game.
Try Arena
I don’t know about the stun mechanics in other games. This is related to my personal experience in LE. It’s a topic many high level players talk about for months now (as already stated by some if those players above).
From my personal experience a VK with 3k health gets stunned regularly on 200 corruption.
He gets stunned very regularly from Arena waves around 200.
I’ve played a Sorcerer and Rogue on similar levels recently and they are almost stunned everytime they get hit.
It’s not always a death. But its very noticable when movement stops or skills don’t go off.
Maybe it isn’t an issue compared to other games that are even worse in this regard. For me it is an issue. For others, too, as the responses show.
I’m not sure what the answer was on the dev stream, but I have read through most of this thread, and I still think that player stuns are an important aspect of gameplay. However it definitely feels like stun avoidance is in a bad spot and that results in a sense of frustration as there’s no effective way of countering these stuns through your build.
The original goal with stun avoidance was to create a stat specifically aimed at mitigating stun beyond just acquiring more health and mitigation. The intention behind it being additive with health was to make it particularly useful for characters with worse defenses to help prevent them being stunned too often. At the moment it’s just very underpowered. This may be a numbers thing, especially as there has been a general increase in the maximum health of most characters. However even before this occurred it never really felt compelling as a stat, and I doubt the low defense characters for whom it was designed ever really considered it as a priority over more damage or just shoring up their defenses through actual health and mitigation. I think this means that we should reconsider the roll of stun avoidance.
An important point touched on in this thread is that it’s a problem if too much of the danger of high tier content arises from unavoidable small hits that you can normally shrug off, rather than more telegraphed heavy attacks that were designed around being avoidable. With infinite scaling it will happen eventually for players who can just keep avoiding these telegraphed attacks ad infinitum, but it’s definitely happening too early at the moment. Therefore it seems likely that instead of catering to the use case of a player low on defenses, a stun protection stat should cater towards players pushing difficult content that are too frequently being stunned by small hits.
This might not be changed for 0.8.4, as we’re getting rather close to that and there are a lot of system changes in there already that we need to make sure hit the mark, but it’s something we’ll keep an eye on.
While this is true atm, why does it have to be?
Why does stun have to be there in the super endgame? Why not allow players that invesnt into endgame be able to immune it with high tier items. We will still die due to the scaling itself if we make a mistake, without the terrible feeling of dying to RNG.
There are already builds that have 100% uptime stun immunity, anythig that uses teleport for example. This builds die too, they just feel better and more fair to pkay.
The fact that some builds have FREE stun avoidance and some will never be able to get it, forces a meta component that makes everything else worst and less desirable to play.
The mechanic is already in the game, why not make it something players can work towards? Why not turn thi into something a player can aspire at? As a player, I like goals!
Thanks for your response @Trasochi
There could be several ways to improve the player experience regarding stuns.
I, too, would like to see the opportunity to build towards stun immunity. Not only for very few specific builds, but for every mastery. This adds the sense of character progression. And I’d prefer sources to add this on top of player power and not so much as a tradeoff for other defenses. We have that infinite scaling endgame so I don’t see that much of an issue doing this in regard to power creep.
Hello.
I would like to draw your attention not only to Stun, but in general to some of the “secondary” means of defense, such as anti-crits, dodges, anti-stuns.
Maybe it would be worth thinking about a system that would unite them and allow for more universal defense?
For example, in some of my games I came across a system of dodges, which do not act “hit-miss”, but a system of gradations.
According to the principle “normal attacks turn into unsuccessful ones, and unsuccessful attacks turn into misses.”
For example. We have a low chance of dodging, we were hit, a normal hit turns into a critical or stun. It becomes clear to us why we received a crit, stun, or any other effect.
At that time, if we dodge an attack, it turns into a failed attack that cannot crush or stun.
This will make Dodge a more stable and important defense (for all characters), while avoiding “unnecessary characteristics”.
I would argue that ‘visually indicated / telepraphed cc’ should remain in the game. It shakes the “gameplay loop” by forcing players to react to a visual cue. When you see the glowing green/grey circles of the enemies who attack you, for instance, you know to avoid this. CC could exist in this capacity.