Hey folks. Since I’ve tried to make a Lich with minions work now for a while, and after I’ve tried the same in the past with the shaman (that is - mix playstyles. Summoner/caster/Melee), I’d like to suggest some things for the Lich passive tree that I think would contribute to diversity without making it too powerful or other trees obsolete (that is: the necromancer).
Ideas behind the suggestions are: its immensely difficult to retain minion survival and damage whilst being able to sustain your own survival and damage as melee or caster Lich - given that the amount of passives, skills and items/attributes on them are limited. Therefor, for the Lich tree, I suggest following (as ideas).
The theme could be something like “the Lich emanates so much power by himself now, that even his creations (minions) take great profit from it.”
Catch them (1/5 points)
Minions gain 20% increased Dodge rate per point (1/5 points)
requires 40 points into Lich
The great Leader (1/3 points)
Minions gain 10% more health and protections per point (multiplicative with other modifiers)
Minions gain 10% of the Acolytes attack, cast and movement speed per point
Minions gain 20% of the acolytes chances to bleed and poison on hit per point
Minions gain 15% of the acolytes added Crit chance (does not count for + melee/spell Crit chance - just for overall and spell crit chance +%).
Requires 45 points into Lich
the values are taken from the character sheet of the acolyte. So 70% additional attack speed would grant 21% attack speed for minions with 3/3 points. 70% chance to poison grants 42% chance for minions, etc.
I feel since it’s already very hard to scale all numbers sufficiently to make any Form of hybrids viable, giving the possibility to scale them higher with a few points high into the Lich tree as well as creating synergies with the Lich himself,
Then there could be something that grants huge boosts for when you have few minions.
The Great Army (1/1)
If you have 3 or fewer minions, they deal 100% more damage (multiplicative).
Requires 35 Points into Lich
Something like that
Because I love both playstyles, and just having one or the other feels restrictive and boring to me - and you’ve done a great job on the shaman and the druid already!
Also, given that many passive nodes and skills for a good summoner are restricted for necromancer only anyway, this would be a very reasonable and not OP addition in any way IMO!
I am not a big fan of summoner playstyle in general, but i love the whole lich mastery.
I could get behind sme of your suggestions, as long as nothing non-minion related gets replaced, since i think the Lich Passive Tree in it’s current state is awesome.
I would have one additional suggestion that i find very fitting for Lich.
A Passive node that either gives or converts Lifeleech from your attacks to your minions.(So damage that YOU deal, heals your minions in the form of regular life leech).
I am not sure if that is technically actionable.
Also a big fan of one of your suggestions:
I want to see more of those “few but strong minion” stuff. Especially when combined with a hybrid playstyle where you and your minions deal equal damage.
I also think that it should be additional to what is there already.
That idea is neat - could also be that 50% of your leech goes to minions instead, or the more points u put into the more leech goes from one end to the other (0-100%, 4 points that give 25% each), or something.
Also what I don’t like is how Lich is big with Necrotic, yet skeletons don’t have any Necrotic at all. So any shared Necrotic dmg or + minion Melee Necrotic or something goes to waste almost, since wraths are necromancer only too.
Other ideas:
Reflection (1/1 node)
Grant minions 5% attack speed for each melee hit you did in the past 5 seconds / 5% cast speed for every spell. Buff lasts 5 seconds obviously.
Requires 20 points into Lich tree
Urgent Bloodpact (1/4)
When you’ve lost life in the past 2 seconds due to enemy damage, minions deal 20% more damage and gain haste and frenzy for 1 second (15% increased move, cast, attack speed) - effect has a 2 second coldown
Requires 35 points into Lich tree
Each point grants 20% damage and 1 second duration.
Obviously, you can have 2 stacks, if you’ve been hit every 2 seconds and maxed it out, so you get 80% dmg and 15% frenzy twice, which makes 160% dmg and 30% frenzy given that you got hit lots in the past 3-4 seconds and keep getting hit every 2 seconds for it to remain up with 2 stacks.
Yeah that’s what i meant with “converted” basically you lose Xamount of “self-leech” that goes to your minions instead, but YOU need to deal the damage to heal them.
I really like that idea, since it really support those hyrbid self-fighting/summoner playstyle.
Especially since keeping minions alive at very very high endgame requires ALOT of investement. With some sort of reliable lifeleech like that those builds would become alot more viable i would say. (And currently playing those hybrid summoner playstyles lack in either your own damage or minion surivability, because you can’t invest in both effectively atm)
You will need to make sure that minions don’t die instantly, so they survive at least a little bit so you are able to counter-leech all incoming damage.
Skeleton Mages are necrotic. But normal Skeletons don’t have (any?) necrotic as far as i kniow, havn’t used them alot tbh.
I like both of your nodes suggestions. All kind of stuff that support summonerplaystyle that requires you to be in the thick of battle is great. Numbers probably need some tweaking, your suggested numbers look a bit OP on paper.
All of this will be unused by “regular” summoners pretty much i guess, but opens up more opportunities for another summoner playstyle.
Yeah the problem with own damage vs minion survivability (and in general their damage, too) that is. There’ve been good ideas so far to counterpart that I think, especially for late game
Mages are Necrotic but skeletons don’t bring any to the table, so any investment is half investment really. Bone golem also doesn’t have any I think? So if you could really bring Mages up to being useful at all as a hybrid, without skelles too or a big golem… Need nodes or ways to make this happen, too!
Or alternatively, have more general damage nodes for minions as Lich.
Yeah the numbers might need tweak, but I also like the style and need of the nodes to be in action or combat of some sort, which makes it obsolete for summoner playstyles as the first choice, but just a very good addition for any kind of hybrid playstyle.
I`m giving up on the hybrid idea for now. If I put the same items on any other char or play a pure Lich melee or pure summoner, I feel there is worlds inbetween. Its as u said - either survivability or Damage will lack - either mine or my minions; or both.
