I kind of liked the more complex system, but can also see how the new one is more efficient. Let’s hope it turns out for the better. I haven’t put too much thought into it but it also seems like it might make gearing a bit easier
What would you like to see happening?
If PoE had taken the same route then they’d have tuck with D2’s skill systems rather than trying the skill gems… There’s also limits to how much a small team of what, 10-15 people, can do in a given time, you need to stop expecting similar output to what we get now from GGG.
No, Flintler wants the protection system because other game don’t do it. Kinda like PoE with it’s skill gems compared to D2’s skill system (which was different to D1’s skill system). I agree with Flintler, but the resists that they’re going with now is easier to understand & know how much benefit you’re getting so you can then go off & use other affix slots for other things.
Trasochi gave one in the more detailed section. Mobs gain 1% resist pen every area level. When you hit lvl 75 they get 75% penetration so your capped resists are treated as zero. Therefore if you have -25% shred on you, you take 25% more damage compared to not having shred on you. If the mobs had no penetration, then 25% shred would reduce your 75% resist to 50%, doubling the damage you took.
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Another day another shake up for the game and theory crafters! Keep up good works guys!
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Interesting change !
My Question,
when in below the threshold,
1 If we have 75% resistance already, can we get “25 % more effective at mitigating” from Armor and can mitigate 93.75 % (75 x 1.25) damage in fact?
Or Because 75 % is resistance cap, so we can not get additional mitigating from armor?
(Above example, we have 40 % resistance. So, in fact, it mitigated 40 x 1.25 = 50 %.)
2 If enemy has 75 % penetration and we have 100 % resistance (75% cap), how does “more effective at mitigating from armor” work?
In this case, we have 0 % resistance from enemy attacks, does not it?
So we can not gain additional mitigating from armor…? 
Armour is not a resistance, it’s an entirely separate defensive layer & behaves differently. Resistance isn’t affected by the whole “health threshold” shenanigans.
As Armour is entirely separate from resists, resist penetration only affects resists, not armour. So if you had 100% resist (capped to 75%) in a lvl 75 zone, plus 20% damage reduction against hits from armour, the mobs resistance penetration would reduce your effective resistance to 0% but you would still benefit from the 20% damage reduction from armour (ignoring the complexities of the increased effectiveness of armour below a threshold, which I still don’t really understand).
No, because armour is not resistance. Armour is always going to give you damage mitigation from hits (unless you have armour shred stacks on you). Resistance penetration has no effect against armour
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Sorry for crap english.
And thanks dev and support team. Traditinal way but I love this.
I hope my Lich wont be broken with this haha.
anyway, I think that 100% res (capped 75%) with 75% pene is treated as 25% res remaining simply. 75% cap means “it will be ignored with final res-calc even if you have more” right?
Maybe miti-calc with Armor is applied (before | after) res-calc result as a completely different layer.
(I have no idea with (before | after) part)
For what I understand (crap english too 
) it’s not.
Going further than cap is not usefull against penetration.
But it’s against shred.
So I think no monster have penetration other than the 75% cap.
But they state that some monsters have shred and that it’s apply before cap. So if you have 100% res and the monster shred 25% (5 times) you still at the cap: 75%
If you have just the cap, you wil take 25% more damage (modulo armor mitigation)
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Interesting change. Would like to see how it works out with the bosses lazors and piecharts that negate tank and if there is any effective tanking change related to the mobs with wtfbbq aoe+ground dots
Oh Boy, this is gonna be a big one… and here I though the crafting changes were the highlight of the next patch…
I knew Glancing Blow was too powerful, didn’t I @Llama8 . 
Not sure about the one-shot mitigation with the low level health damage reductions… If this effectively means you can no longer be oneshot, then I am not really for it. As much as its a frustrating part of playing games, I like to be a little scared of the boss who can sneeze in your direction and you are a gonner… 
Will have to see how this pans out in real play.
Hope all the set affixes & items with them that I have collected are still gonna be useful… Glad I kept a few armour ones… Loving the idea that we may finally have the affix space to spend on offensive stats!
Probably a good idea to backup savegames before this patch drops… all those item updates… ahhh… hmmm… meesa sees a trainsmasha comin…
Not sure the resistance changes were necessary even with the confusion the old setup caused, but nothing wrong with using what works. Glancing blow needed to be changed for sure though. Easily the most powerful stat in the game and was a no brainer to put on your gear. At least now I won’t feel like I’m spending 70% of my gear affixes GB,CA, & Resist just to not die constantly on harder content.
引用
Armour is not a resistance, it’s an entirely separate defensive layer & behaves differently. Resistance isn’t affected by the whole “health threshold” shenanigans.
Ooh, thank you ! I did not understand this, but now maybe I understand.
Now armor has “separated defence mod” such as 10 %, 20 %, 30 %, 40 % mitigating and this depends on item levels, etc.
And this mod increases 25 % more if we are below health thresholds.
So, my example 2, if enemy has 75% penetrate and we have 100% resistance, the mitigated damage depends on only armor’s mod, only if we do not take armor shred.
Wow, Armors are very important gear !
I want to try this new defense system ! 
I’m going to be honest, with this change I will stop playing this game and I will recommend people don’t play it. There are core problems with using this type of system that make end-game balance horrible.
Visually this system looks intuitive but mathematically this system is completely unintuitive. Each percentage is worth more than the last. This is unavoidable. You even acknowledge this by saying that the last 25% is a double in EHP. After already doubling from 0% to 50%. You know it scales multiplicatively.
Then you made it less intuitive by adding invisible descaling from monsters. I understand that this is to emulate the system found in other games where each difficulty level reduces the cap. You haven’t magically solved the problem where you need capped resists. It just gives the illusion that the scaling resets at high levels but the reality is that enemies have an exponential increase in damage dealt to players as they level up, and it means that players actually just need to hit 150% instead of 75%. Which again is basically the same mechanic as other ARPGs.
You had the option to make it multiplicative instead of additive and you chose not to. It is a lot harder to hit 75% when you require that resistances from multiple sources multiply instead of add together. This also makes increases in resistance not exponential which mitigates the end-game scaling problem.
You made armor and resistances not work the same way. You used to have a more unified system where you add a number and it acts the same way defensively for a different damage type. It also has thresholds you need to know, and it makes less sense by simply reading how it works. You need to do math for breakpoints to determine effectiveness.
75% is a special number. When you require that players have 4x EHP in order to do late game content (which adding up to 75% or 150% is a lot easier than managing flat scaling resistances AND glancing blow) it exponentially skews damage scaling from enemies. In order to make content hard you need to make it effective against this number. Any additional minor changes to player or monster stats on top of the normal hidden scaling to resistances have drastic effects.
Over long term development as more content gets released, more content will skew based on this system and you will inevitably end up where Path of Exile is, in the realm of 1-shots (often well before end-game, because as content gets released people will reach capped resistances farther and farther from end-game without periodic major rebalancing). People like to believe it is because of leech/regen and other recovery mechanics. The reality is that those mechanics are over-tuned because of this system. One facilitates the other over time. It may be fine now, but it will get worse as development continues.
What’s amazing is that generally in your old system resistances were usually at or just above equivalent to health while also having glancing blow at 100% when your gear was more or less complete. Mathematically this was an approximate equivalent to 75% damage reduction. Two multipliers that roughly each double your EHP. The major difference is in how they scale. Glancing blow can only reduce damage by up to half. Resistances scaled linearly and not exponentially. Damage scaling from enemies was better tuned to a slower (because it was more difficult to scale) progression. The end result is similar, but the system was better because it was a more natural progression. But now you still also have glancing blow… so now not only is the scaling exponential, but the ceiling is way higher (75% resistances plus 100% glancing blow is 8x EHP). I haven’t even mentioned the part where armor is another multiplier.
The system you had was intuitive. That was why you designed it, and you even said as much. The fact that every other ARPG uses as system copied directly from Diablo 1 (well actually Diablo 2, but that game got it from Diablo 1) is not magically a good thing. You guys were trying to innovate and you undid your work. It is not the fault of your system that people are obsessed with reaching a high percentage instead of recognizing the math… which is also the problem with the other system. The majority don’t understand how the percentage based system works to begin with… and then you added invisible descaling.
In short, rather than use an intuitive and innovative system you have regressed to copying the same flawed systems everyone else uses. If this is an indicator of the game’s core design going forward I will stop playing this game, and I will recommend others do the same. I specifically played this game because it was trying to create intuitive solutions and designs to potential shortfalls of previous ARPGs. I was even willing to accept that this game had Set Items (which are also bad for long-term game health, but that’s a different rant).
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This is wrong. What was said was that penetrations (which monsters scale based on zone level) happens AFTER resist cap. So penetration will ALWAYS penetrate you below cap.
This means that if you cap resists, if you are in a zone level 75+, monsters hit you as if you don’t have any resists at all.
What is excessively punishing is that if you don’t cap your resists, monster penetration scaling scales multiplicatively by the same math that they tried to avoid with resists. At zero resists at level 50 zones, you take double damage. At level 75+ zones, you will take 4x damage.
This is why I said zone level scaling should be Shred instead of Penetration. Shred applies to your resists before cap, so overcapping will buffer against it.
Lets not even talk about zone level 75+ against mobs that have Shred.
This mechanics make it less intuitive then before.
there are a lot of of other not very intuitive mechanics compared to resist one.
You not even not need to be veteran player, just not complete noob in arpg games to not understand standard resist mechanics
Now anyone who want to do math will be really confused.
I think this change must be rollbacked.
You’re going to need to go into a bit more detail with what you mean there 'cause I’m not quite understanding it.
Do you mean that if you have 3 sources of 25% resist, then instead of treating it as 75% resist, you take ~42% damage ((1-0.25) x (1-0.25) x (1-0.25)) instead of 25%? All that would mean is that it would require even more affix slots to hit max instead of however many they need now (not sure how much that is TBH).
I wouldn’t say that there are breakpoints per se, Armour now works differently to how it worked before, it’s a separate defensive layer that gives a % damage reduction to all hits (like glancing blow).
And I think this is why they added the per area level penetration to mobs. It means that they can assume that resistances are a non-issue excepting in the specific circumstances where mobs have shred. Then all they need to balance around is hp, dodge & ward (while also requiring the player to have a certain amount of affixes/idols/passives/etc reserved for resists as well as the other defences). As they said above, it also makes shred do a more reasonable amount of more damage. If you’re effectively at 0%, -10% shred is 10% more damage taken. If you’re at 75%, that -10 shred is 40% more.
Yes, this is definitely a concern.
Except they said that Glancing Blow has been removed from most items & abilities so it’s no longer possible to get 100%.
No, it wasn’t, lots of people were confused by protections when they started the game & asked in chat. It was easy to understand when you understood it, but the problem was that the average/normal player didn’t.
Exactly, people didn’t understand it, which makes it a (kinda) bad system.
If they were like D2’s set items, I would agree with you, but they aren’t. They have far fewer pieces, and they don’t (generally) add a 10,000% modifier to a skill…
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So it seems to me that 115% is the maximum you want to build a resistance up to
hence if a monster stacks up a maximum shred against you it will be -40%. If you had built up say 120% in resistances then
so you would then up with 120% - 40% = 80% and the additional 5% above 75% is a waste as the cap then kicks in at 75%
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There are a lot of concerns here. But also they really are very biased and theoretical.
I don’t see why you could judge if a system, you did not test a single second and that even isn’t released, should be rolled back.
May I suggest you at least test it when its life. Start a new SSF character of your choice, play through the story and do some hours of monolith in an area above lvl 75.
Then I’m all open for your feedback.
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Iam talking about math here, not about game balance or something else, that requires to play game to test.
New resist math is more confusing , then standard resist math. That it!
Don’t break it all down into numbers.
Just start playing and get to know how it “feels”. Its not to have nice and shiny formulas to show off how smart the devs are. All they do is to try to make gameplay as smooth as possible. Level out damage spikes on the player character as well as damage dealt to enemies and bosses.
Alright, lets list what we know and do some math:
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Each resistance caps at 75%.
-
Enemies have 1% penetration per area level to a maximum of 75% at area level 75+ and applies after the resistance cap.
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Enemy resistance shred applies at 2% per stack up to a total of 20 stacks (so a maximum of -40% resistance shred on the player) and applies before the resistance cap.
Examples:
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Area level is 100 and the player has all resistances at exactly the 75% cap.
Any enemy in this area will apply 75% resistance penetration, putting the player at an effective resistance of 0%. Neglecting other damage mitigations, the player receives the exact amount of incoming damage. 100 enemy Fire damage dealt would be 100 Fire damage received. -
Area level is 100 and the player has all resistances at 0%.
Any enemy in this area will apply 75% resistance penetration, putting the player at an effective resistance of -75%. Neglecting other damage mitigations, the player receives 75% more damage from incoming damage. 100 enemy Fire damage dealt would be 175 Fire damage received.
Let’s add the max shred to each of the above examples;
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The player has 20 stacks of Fire Resistance Shred on them, so -40% total Fire Resistance Shred, while having 75% Fire resistance. Now the player has 35% Fire Resistance. Any fire attack received from an enemy at this point will put the player at -40% Fire Resistance, due to the additional 75% resistance penetration. Neglecting other damage mitigations, the player receives 40% more damage from incoming damage. 100 enemy Fire damage dealt would be 140 Fire damage received.
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The player has 20 stacks of Fire Resistance Shred on them, so -40% total Fire Resistance Shred, while having 0% Fire resistance. Now the player has -40% Fire Resistance. Any fire attack received from an enemy at this point will put the player at -115% Fire Resistance, due to the additional 75% resistance penetration. Neglecting other damage mitigations, the player receives 115% more damage from incoming damage. 100 enemy Fire damage dealt would be 215 Fire damage received.
Takeaways;
- The game is now essentially balanced around the player having 0% resistances (after enemy resistance penetrations with the player having 75% resistances).
- Neglecting other damage mitigations, the player receives the exact amount of incoming damage in a best case scenario, to receiving 2.15 times the incoming damage in a worst case scenario.
- To negate the effects of enemy resistance shred, the player would need to have a total of 115% resistance for each resistance. Is this necessary? Probably unlikely.
- Resistances are just one defensive layer. There is still Armour, Dodge, Block, Health, Ward, Critical Strike Avoidance, and Glancing Blow (to a lesser extent), so Resistances are still just a piece of a bigger pie (be it a significant piece of that pie).
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