Just a random thought, completely open for discussions…
I have the feeling lately that more and more uniques are being used.
Every single build I look at nowadays usually has 3, 4 uniques, sometimes even more. And I don’t mean build-defining ones, just super powerful ones that are always Best in Slot.
Could be my memory playing tricks, but it feels like when I started playing people were using far less uniques in their builds.
And I find this evolution a bit sad. It doesn’t really matter, it is just a weird feeling of boredom when everybody wears the same stuff (for example all these rogues, spellblades, even primalists, hiding behind their Bastion of Honour in builds completely unrelated to block).
Note that I am not blaming anyone, I do the same, my most recent characters use way too many uniques, because they are just far, far stronger than anything else I could craft.
So, the questions (as I said, it is open to discussion, I don’t have definitive answers):
Are there too many uniques in the game?
Are some of them too powerful? Which ones do you think are “too much”. Dreamthorn? Bastion? The one giving 100% CSA (forgot the name)?
Is that a side-effect of legendaries, people focusing more on uniques?
Can we actually get a crafted BiS with good rolls, or are uniques always going to be the ultimate goal? In that case, is it a good or a bad thing?
What could be implemented to make gearing more diversified?
Looking forward to reading your opinions.
Oh, and to conclude, a challenge to all the Boardmans, Lizards, and other build-makers: make builds using no uniques, or just one if it brings a mechanic you cannot get otherwise. You can do it!
Edit: come to think of it, a “no-uniques” challenge mode at character creation would be rather cool. With separate stash, and ladders.
I mean you see a lot of uniques because they are the only things you can turn into legendary items, which combine exalted item affixes with unique items.
I’m more worried about the state of Set Items. They seem really subpar for what they should be.
Did you ever play Diablo 2? A LOT of unique were used in builds (Shako, Occy, SoJ, HoZ, BK to list a few). I like that certain uniques can be powerful enough to use over rares. It adds to the chase imo.
Never… sorry… I love chase items like this. However, Its important to me that there are a decent number of viable uniques so that you dont end up with a situation where the same ones are used over and over in virtually every build (i.e. D3)… e.g. right now, imho, Bastion is arguably the best shield so its used for almost any shield build and there arent really any competitors for the slot - to me thats bad… I would prefer that there were at least 5 bastion level shields with each having a very niche difference that would be build defining. and yes… i still want them to be hard to get and even harder if they drop with higher LP.
This is interesting. A year ago, this would never have been asked as Uniques were generally so lacklustre that no-one used more than a handful for end game builds… imho, there are some uniques like Bastion that stand out as being powerful, but I dont think that is a problem - provided there are more alternatives & the drop rate chances etc are appropriate… if I play 1k hours of hard farming, I would like a really powerful unique as a reward…
Probably… I mentioned in another thread that Legendaries have added a whole new level of item farm for me… Previously it was just looking for a specific unique… now you can turn even the previously useless uniques into something decent by farming for exalted items and uniques with higher LP… Its a whole new dimension in creating high end gear… for me its not so much the use of uniques, its the fact that you are now motivated to find exalts too… its much harder but the reward is MUCH higher too…
I am pretty sure that a crafted Exalt will still be a BiS item in the majority of cases… It all depends on how easily 4lp uniques drop… i.e. if you have a perfect exalted Bow and then get a 4LP bow drop (any unique bow really) - well, thats a no brainer for a BiS legendary - a pure stat stick boost…
I thought that Legendaries already added a whole new level of interest and diversity…
In summary, barring some specific items that are very hard to get, I dont think that Uniques are overpowered generally… Legendaries obviously could be but I think thats the point as the top tier item in the game and this is dependent on the LP potential drop rates (which are probably not finalised in stone right now)…
So you don’t think there are too many uniques, you think there are not enough? I really like the idea. More powerful items with small differences would mean people wouldn’t use always the same ones.
The more I think about it, the more I feel like uniques are becoming some kind of “base”. We used to farm or gamble for optimal bases, now we farm for uniques then we try to craft on them.
Not necessarily a bad thing. Ultimately I guess we will all end up wearing the same item, but personalised with different affixes. And it brings us back to your previous point, more powerful uniques is better than less for diversity.
I also agree that finding and crafting great purples is considerably harder than finding the unique with 1 or 2 LP (more LPs is another story…). Which is good, it keeps the chase going.
I started the game in January last year and at that moment it was “use whatever unique you find, at the end you’ll want a crafted item”. This has now changed, due to the quantity of uniques and to the legendary effect.
But I agree that the solution may be MORE unique instead of less ones. The way Vapourfire describes it, Uniques will become common but will bring variety to the builds. Which is counter-intuitive.
The only reason it’s changed is because of legendaries. Pre-0.8.4 the only reason you’d want a unique was if its unique affixes were good for your build & they would have had to have been pretty special to be taken over an exalted item with a sealed affix. Now with legendaries you can take an otherwise average unique & buff the **** out of it with up to 4 additional affixes. Bonus points if the unique has a very powerful effect for your build, like Wings of Argentus with +2-4 level of Warpath.
If legendaries weren’t a thing, people would still be mostly using crafted items, especially since you can seal an affix.
Before the release of Legendaries, Uniques were already more common than before. Not as much as now, but still more. I think it’s due to the fact that there are many more, and among them more and more really good and useful ones.
I think it’s more of this than anything. A good portion of builds that I have made in the past didn’t use uniques at all, aside from a decently rolled Omnis I got, or certain complimentary pieces with unique stats like Valdyr’s Chalice. Ignoring the obvious build enabling ones like Exsanguinous.
Now with legendaries I can slot in build/stat neutral uniques that have some LP on them and great stats that alleviate affix/passive pressure like Woven Flesh to curb Crit Avoidance in one fell swoop. Getting 5 affixes on rares with glyphs of despair is pretty nice depending on the gear slot and what you can get out of it, does it match a great legendary? Of course not, but it’s at least something else to strive for.
It’s growing pains right now with new systems being added and the rest of the bunch needing to catch up, just like
pointed out. I’ve felt that idols and class specific prefixes need a good once over after all the masteries and skills are finished because there’s some gaps for newer play styles that aren’t getting any support in those areas atm (lightning/electrify paladin comes to mind).
Ultimately, I agree that I don’t want an experience like other ARPGs where all my characters are kitted out in uniques and/or sets where numbers just get bigger for the sake of big numbers. Or because a certain unique is just way too strong to not use, like Bastion as you mentioned.
On the other hand I don’t want all my builds to be geared in RNG nested rares that are just glorified stat sticks either, without unique interactions or stats gear gets boring quickly. There’s a happy medium there to be explored, just have to keep at it to get there. Despite the current situation, legendaries were a great addition to the game that was needed, just need more systems to reach that level of chase to even it out.
Yeah, you can get the crit avoidance from Woven Flesh plus the +skill level from an exalted chest which you couldn’t before, ditto for something like Valdyr’s Chalice if you’re going for a bleed build. Before, uniques in the helm/chest/relic slot would have to be ****ing awesome to outweigh the benefit you could otherwise get from +skills or other class-specific affixes. Now you can have both.
Though as Shtrak said, more, better (ie, build enabling as well as more powerful) uniques doesn’t hurt.
Nope and only promotes more build diversity down the line, which other games in the genre seem to be struggling to understand that concept for some reason. It will only get better as masteries and skills get more iteration. Chances are I wouldn’t have bothered with Morditas’ Reach in a build until the druid rework,. Now I’d be overly joyed for a 2-3LP one to fall at my feet and go for a frostbite swarmblade, for a quick example.
I found it funny that we only had smoke weaver as the only unique dagger and bone harvester as the only two handed axe for a while there. Definitely room for growth in the weapons department.
Just a reminder: There is still no content ingame that needs exalted or LP uniques to be played. Right now people minmax and there are some realy good uniques outside of the build enabeling ones so why not? If anything is the case then there are to little uniques and far to boring ones right now… at least from mypoint of view.
I follow a simple approach: Is it better then my items in slot? if yes equipp it if no bunker it in the stash if it is decently rolled with LP. The only uniques that make me happy are the rare ones and that’s it because dropping “The Slab” 5 times in a row with 0 LP gets old after some time.
There are some item types, that do not have any “exciting” random unique drops.
There are a few item types, that do have good uniques, but those are often boss uniques, which are not random. And the rest of the items are not exciting at all.
Because these cannot drop randomly, everytime I get a random drop of one of these categories, I still know there is nothing “really exciting”.
Legendary Potential definitely at least sparked an interest to at least look at all uniques, because a 3LP or 4LP “medicore” unique could still become decent.
But if every item type would have at least 1 or 2 very rare and exciting uniques, that would be great.
I know it is borderline impossible to create exciting uniques for every build in every slot and that should also not be the goal.
But some itme type categories definitely need more variety in their random drop pool
Agreed on the existing boring & more uniques to come… Most definitely.
Re Slab… I have a few Slabs stored with 3LP each… no idea what to do with them because Bastion is still better… Just illustrates my point that the devs need to make a lot of other Uniques more attractive to use… I mentioned in another thread how for example, there are other shields that sound really interesting & possibly fun to use but when you actually try them, they are not any better than a decent exalted… and then all we do, as you mention, is we store the ones with decent LP in the hope that some future update/exalt will make them worth using…
Thought I would give my opinion as well. I think the reason so many uniques are being used is nearly 100% because of the legendary system. Before the system was added builds only used uniques if they specific unique affixes for their build. Now we will take an LP unique of anything that might be moderately useful and has enough LP to grab the affixes we need for the build. As an example, Grimoire of Necrotic Elixirs has necrotic damage on potion use and reduced damage taken, without LP would only be maybe used on necrotic builds. With the common occurrence of 3-4 LP grimoires, almost any build can take advantage of the reduced damage available and get their relic affixes. Another example is Thornslinger, an early game unique with +1 to phys skills which is valuable endgame, if you can get 2-3 LP for your typical hybrid/% hp affixes and cleanse etc. There is two examples of common uniques used now that can bring more power than crafted rares/exalts. However this is also a result of a lack of competitive alternatives for the belt slot etc.
Overall I believe the legendary system is incredibly good for the game and creates much more interest in uniques especially unused low level ones, and crafting depth in the endgame. That being said I think most of the issues of overuse of uniques compared to before will be toned down as the game gets balance patches closer to launch. As well as set items being brought up to an acceptable level (I do not think they should just get LP but something more along the lines of stronger effects as set bonuses and unique effects as set bonuses that aren’t available anywhere else, or change the way skills work, best examples imo being glancing blow>block chance, shattered lance melee cold damage per hp regen, and lightning meteor set)
I think the goal for gearing as we get closer to launch as far as power level should be something like a BIS crafted exalted with say T6/T7 of your most wanted stat plus a T3-4 sealed affix of another strong affix would be on par power wise with a 2-3 LP strong unique. I don’t believe having a ton of 4LP uniques for multiple slots of a build is healthy for the game, even if they are harder to obtain than other items. If most endgame builds are about 1/3 legendary items and rest well crafted exalts that would be a positive goal for the crafting system by time launch comes. As of now we might be at near 40-50% legendaries as BIS because there aren’t enough competitive options in the same spots.
On the issue of Bastion, I would like to see its power brought down slightly and rarity increased, and then also to have multiple other shields as competitive options in the late game.
Just illustrates my point that the devs need to make a lot of other Uniques more attractive to use… I mentioned in another thread how for example, there are other shields that sound really interesting & possibly fun to use but when you actually try them, they are not any better than a decent exalted… and then all we do, as you mention, is we store the ones with decent LP in the hope that some future update/exalt will make them worth using…