I think EHG should just let people say mean things. If you can’t handle it then mute them or turn off chat, like an adult. If it’s legal and it’s not spam that keeps other conversation from happening then it should be allowed.
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That could ruin the experience for players.
We all should be able to use the chat, not only people who are OK with mean things. For that, the chat will have private channels.
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I hope they do have private and less restrictive channels but I haven’t seen any indication that they will. This is the automatic message I get when I get into game:
“Welcome to Last Epoch! To help keep chat fun and friendly we ask that you treat others with respect, keep topics related to Last Epoch, and avoid spamming, trolling, and any other excessively vulgar language.”
There’s a lot of ambiguity here. It’s these kinds of nice-sounding rules that keep Reddit the cesspool of arbitrary moderation that it is and I know I’m not the only one who’s skeptical about how they’ll be enforced in 2021. If they put up an alternative wild-west type general chat for people who don’t want to have to be hyper vigilant about what we type in a video game I would be satisfied with that, but again, I’ve seen no indication that they will. Thanks for the discussion.
Only time will tell.
Two problems with this:
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What’s legal is different in different parts of the world, so trying to use that as a basis may unintentionally expose EHG to legal liabilities.
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More importantly, it’s pretty well-established that toxic/malicious/etc. communications lead to people leaving at platforms (games, social media, whatever) at higher rates, even if they just see it and aren’t involved directly.
I’m very much in favor of free and open speech in general, so I wouldn’t want EHG to get involved in moderation for people who’re upset about reasonable criticisms or who just have a difference of opinions, but I’d expect it’s in their best interests to have some degree of moderation (side note: I keep global chat muted all the time anyway because I want a solo gaming experience).
I agree that their statement is on the vague side, but on the other hand, giving specific examples wouldn’t really help with people who are acting in bad faith; they’d just shift from arguing “is what I said really trolling?” to arguing “is what I said really worse than your example?” Ultimately, if you have to think about whether something would be disrepectful[1] or otherwise inappropriate, it probably is, so best to keep it in your head.
[1]: Recognizing that people have different standards for defining such terms, I’d expect there’d be some way to appeal moderation for borderline cases.
I believe EHG is an American company so I would argue that they should go by American law regarding speech. I understand that other countries have different restrictions but frankly a lot of them are ridiculous and I suspect that as long as EHG isn’t actively working to sell their game or operate servers there they should be fine legally. Of course this may come with financial consequences and they’re trying to make money, which I respect, but I think it’s reasonable to expect some level of human decency from companies.
You make a fine point about people shifting arguments and moving goalposts and I agree that people would do that, however I’d also argue that several prominent internet-based companies do a lot of that in their own moderation, and I don’t want to see that from EHG. It doesn’t seem too far-fetched, if this game takes off internationally, that genocide in China might be judged as more off-topic and therefore more rule-breaking than some other off-topic subject. So I hope they’ll provide an alternative, opt-in general discussion channel with less restrictions. Thanks for your high-effort reply.
P.S. : Patch time!
That’s not how laws work.
If they sell it in a country (sale done by Steam), they accept to comply the laws of this country. If not, they have no permission to sell.
With what you propose, EHG would be able to sell in the US and in the few countries that have laws fully compliant with the ones of the US.
International laws can be a real mess sometimes, you can’t do what you want.
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Yea I know it’s awfully optimistic for me to expect an American company to stand by traditional American values these days even if it costs them money. I guess I was just being hopeful.
I’m pretty sure that Steam provides them the option to not sell in countries that hate freedom though.
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As an American, I question what this even means today. I have a suspicion what it meant 40 some odd years ago. Also…
I believe this to be accurate. For example, blood and gore is essentially outlawed in the Chinese market.
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You mean, sell in the US only? Some company do, I guess.
As a non American, I’m still happy to be able to play Last Epoch though.
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There is no ambiguity here at all. What part of spamming, trolling, and vulgarness is unclear? The part where you disagree with what others find as spamming, trolling, and vulgar? If you already know people consider it that, then you already know what it means. It doesn’t matter that you wish it didn’t mean that, it does. Simple, be nice. Don’t create conflict. Avoid offending people. If that sounds too hard, turn chat off.
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How about you click to mute or “you” turn the chat off, it is pretty simple. Most of the things people get reported for is idiotic snowflake fuel. Some people enjoy trolling and jking. it helps keep the chat lively most of the time, and i will gladly take someone saying a no-no word over the endless poe crap anyday.
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Well first, I’ve stated numerous times that I do turn chat off regularly. Second, your stance is entirely selfish and unreasonable. You want freedom to do anything, but guess what? Life has rules. And chat’s rules are right there when you login.
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I can see both sides of this coin, but the bottom line is that bad behavior should be punished.
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would be good to see some community moderation
reports are good but they usually take a while and especially when the game gets bigger
I’m sure there are some trusted members that could help moderate the chat by removing access instantly as a temporary solution while it gets reviewed by EHG?
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Chat is super toxic now that other languages are supported, specifically Chinese. Both sides are very toxic. It’s painful to watch as someone who understand both languages moderately well.
Every 5 minutes there would be an English-speaking players come online and say something offensive/discriminating upon seeing Chinese characters and Chinese players who understand English would translate and the window would be drown in abusive political/racial comments. Players asking for help can’t get answered because the chat windows scroll so fast.
Jesus, give us channels already.
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There would need to be some pretty strict requirements for anyone to have that power, especially given that a lot of stuff is going to be based on bias and perspective.
Racism would be an obvious thing to silence. But something like trolling is not as clear. IS he actually trolling or just saying something people don’t agree with? What is the intent? And so on. People should not be silenced because some “trusted” guy doesn’t like someones words.
First of all we talk about written stuff and we don’t see if something is fun or not. I have a pretty dark humor but I don’t smack it into strangers faces because it’s not fun for everyone. Joking and trolling in racists terms is a big nogo because A it’s not fun and B something that should never show up in an enviorment like we have… a game we play to have a good time.
It’s 2021 and people should know by now what kind of stupid f**** they are when they write BS. I shouldn’t be forced to turn off the chat becaause my braincells commit suicide while reading the truckload of crap that is posted there. An alive chat full of trash is not healthy in any way shape or form. From my point of view there is no excuse for some kind of behaviour we see from time to time in the chat.
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Chat has turned into a shit show the past few days within the span of 1 hour I had to block 8 people .I have seen endless spamming by some people, racist remarks, sexism .People using religion to troll and bait people some really vulgar sexual content endless toxic POE back and forth.
There is not much that offends me at all and honestly not much of it bothers me in that sense. It is just frustrating because the chat should be for people to discuss the game and ask questions. And because chat is filled with so much garbage lately people cant even ask questions because chat is scrolling so fast that is filled with trash.
Some people have said to just turn off chat I shouldn’t have to turn off chat I like keeping it on because sometimes there is a lot of really good information in chat about the game. I have learned a lot just by reading peoples answers to questions and people talking about different game mechanics etc…More than anything its just frustrating and its just flat out bad for the game and its community. There should be some type of moderation.
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My friend and I just came from the most toxic game we have played, Swords of Legends online, and found the chat here to be a breath of fresh air like games used to be, until a few days ago, and now it’s downright awful, with people using the “N” word and worse, and no way of reporting them. I’ve learnt some interesting game related stuff from chat too, but feel inclined to disable it now as it’s just appalling.
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