Yeah. There’s a huge difference between people that live in the first world with high quality internet, but refuse to use “always on” software (the reasons are mostly some I personally don’t understand) and people that would like to use “always on” software, but cannot because of restrictions they cannot work around.
Of course this is beta. Plans change. But advertising (that is what they did with the sentence on their FAQ in the first place) and then not delivering that stuff to people that bought the product for that particular reason, needs to be addressed.
I remember the case with EHG dropping the Mac support. I don’t know where this went, I hope that Mac users got a refund for the game.
All the people that are not affected by this (I’m back on the “always on” topic), should not try to play it down. It looks very selfish to read sentences like “you are just a minority, so who cares”.
On top it’s not only a topic for the people with bad internet. Just imagine LE might not be that successful in the future. Servers have to shut down, services are cancelled. If EHG then is not so nice (or can’t afford the resources to do so anymore) and patches the always on out of the game, everybody loses access to the game.
There are a lot of examples where games closed down and weren’t playable anymore. Image you invested money into MTX and stuff and then you aren’t allowed to play offline because the login servers shut down. This is btw. one if the main arguments against always on and for a pure offline mode. In any game!
I agree with you. I am also on the online only camp. But I sympathise with people who feel “cheated” out of a pure offline mode. But then again, I dont think it is so straightforward. People quit games for all kinds of reason. I dont think it is fair for such changes and then for them to claim a refund by saying “oh I bought LE because of Mac support/pure offline mode, so now that is scrapped I should be refunded.” It’s just a slippery slope.
Actually, with MTX purchases, you really want a secure online only environment. Piracy is one big reason why pure offline doesnt work - with pure offline you must provide all 3D assets in people’s computer for the game to load those assets. There is no way you can prevent people from hacking access into those assets and not pay a single cent for mtx in a pure offline environment.
This all got covered in the FAQ section Andrew quoted:
This can be used to activate MTX, too. As long as there’s an active service you can use the "single time confirmation " stuff to activate your MTX.
But when services shut down, there’s no need to “protect” content anymore.
I have several games in my steam library that shut down and I can’t play anymore. They don’t start because the authentication servers aren’t there. I payed for these games, box price and sometimes MTX. It’s not my fault, the devs went bankrupt. And I’m not speaking about MMOs. I’m talking about single player games.
It’s like saying “Bosch went bankrupt, so all tools are now locked and don’t work anymore”.
This is actually not a real solution and does nothing imo. For the people who needs true offline (e.g. being in remote places or stable internet is not common), this does nothing for them. For securing mtxes, this is also useless, because after the authentication process, you’re still free to do/hack anything you want.
Yes. Full online the game dies with the company. But I think there is no two ways around it for games employing a GaaS model.
But you’d have to provide all of the assets to every player anyway regardless of whether they bought the mtx or not, how else would they see other players’ mtx?
I’ve had a conversation with Sarno over this before. I think long story short is that, this is tricky, but in an online environment there are ways to autheticate and/or stream temporary assets, etc… options which are non-starter for a fully offline game.
I was joking at that coment. But for evwrything else i was serious. After reading today what i wrote i cross the line so i apologize i was angry yesterday and today im not
Edited:for the topic i am dead serious svere on my life
I’m really sorry that youre in this situation and that you feel cheated or lied to in some way but do you understand that unfortunately, you are truly in the minority here? Like the situation sucks but there is no argument you can put across that would make it reasonable for the devs to prioritise someone like yourself over the majority of players who can and will play online mode? Again I’m sorry about your situation but this post comes off as very self centred.
But he did paid for the product with a certain idea about the game in mind which the devs did backtrack on. I think it is perfectly his right to express his disappointment. Just as you can be assured I will kick a big fuss if Judd says no more MP for Last Epoch because I specifically asked about that before backing the game.
PS: I also regret not specifically asking about trading economy when I backed the game… assuming an open economy is almost a given. Though at this point I am accepting that a good MP LE may well be better than a free trading LE fingers crossed.
It doesnt matter if i am minority or not, what is stated in advertisement should be followed through and by that i mean about game breaking stufd, 1 week ago was still advertized as it will have offline mode. If the situation arises there will be no online but only offline mode that wouldnt be valid couse there is mayority of people who likes that? What kinf of logic ia that except money talks logic, and to me this is a signal this devs will be the same as GGG devs money and profit here is prioritazied over everything, if u were in this minority i assure u u would see ths logic behind my words couse now u might find them like an attack on devs but its not its shere disappointment of beliving them to be something they are not in the first place. Thanks for your kind vomment anyway
While I think you have every right to be disappointed, I’m not sure if I necessarily agree with you on this point though. It may not be about profit but simply that for a GaaS ARPG, a mostly/purely online environment is probably required to give the majority of players the best experience possible.
I understand you may not care. But for everyone else who do care, EHG also need to make sure these other people’s experiences are taken care of. It’s really choosing between a rock and a hard place, someone is going be disappointed either way. Also, I might be simplifying the situation by talking about MTXes. That was my concern but perhaps the devs have other reasons/concerns for thinking a pure offline mode is not really possible anymore.
Its ok not to agree, and from your comments so far and in past i can see u are calm and kind man, so i want to return than when i am commenting with u even though i am very upset i tought this game is gonna fill my void in half year period it would be the only ting i played, i was so happy that i found arpg that can deliver greatness in offline mode since there are none currently on market like that. But on the otherside i work for oil majors and i have a lot of friends working in office shore, and i assure u every decission no matter how small it is to the biggest one has behind it reaction to current revenues and to future revenues in certain model which is already established or is discussed while making decission (depends how big it is) and this move is nothing more than that couse every move is. They are looking their strengts, weaknesses and opportunities, potentional losses and gains in statistical matter before deciding something like that and what i can see here is that i am with minority on part of statistical graph they will sacrifice for more profitable future and yes it pisses me of couse i can see wolf behind sheeps clouthing in all of politeness from before and i can see that only couse it is affecting me so much on a personal level and i do not expect for people that are not affected to understand it fully but i appreciate very much your compassion on this matter.
Edited: after this process i forgot to mention, u have public relations guy or team it depends how big company it is. They will try to calm things down or do nothing at all statisticaly it depends how big percentage of upset people there is, taking potential losses and disturbances of their name in public these person or team will try to calm things down in order to will percentage of people over and will have script on what to say or will improvise it dependa of structur of company or how big it is (basicaly its the same thing). It is very familiar model no mater where u live. This is nothing more than what politicans do and words dont speak for themself couse u can say anything and its really easy to say anything it can be done just by opening your mouth or type few lines with your keyboard. Actions are the ones who speak for themself. So i do not like to watch smiley Mike anymore, or read comments from Sarno, Max or other devs, they said enough with this action and i am not intrested even on how they are gonna justify it or will they do it at all but i can surely see Mike being public relations guy in future since if i had a company like that i would choose him to be exactly that, the move for devs streams no matter how happy we are for all those Q and A we get today it has one goal but in future it will turn to something else. If u think I am exagurating or talking nonsense that is fine but do me a favour and remwmber this crazy post from one random guy that is just a brick in the whole house and remember it when it happens couse “tommorow” u can be statistical minority. But i can tell u one thing for sure dear devs u have just loss big peace of cake which u didnt see at all and im taljing of Philippino market, people that spend 9 to 10months a year on vessels like me and their favourite kind of game is arpg (i sailed with few houndreds of them and there are houndred of thousadns of them as seaman)
He would rather accept not having MTX if he can then just play offline than not playing at all.
If you did understand this, your argument doesn’t make sense. You say “people without internet access are a minority and may have to suffer for sake of online security reasons”. But the next sentence you say
I’d asume that players that only play offline and want MTX are even a smaller minority than offline players at all. You propably will get more sales by stating “Offline without MTX support” than “No offline mode at all”.
Even though this assumtion makes it in favour of this thread i agree with it, they will lose planty potential players they even didnt thought they could have Philippinos are one good example since basicly im living with them and i can say for sure what majority of them likes based on age ofcourse.
Edited: even if u make login required every 30 days to check authenticity of the game it would be fine but to be loged in everytime u play in this way they can make it online comoleate its the same thing why to bother
I assure you I understood what he was saying. The miscomm is how you interpreted my “everyone else who do care”. But I rather not get into a technical argument about what I mean or didnt mean because it really is beside the point.
Suffice to say, I feel for OP. And it’s not really my intention to make any arguments to get OP to accept EHG’s current decision. Because if I were in his shoes, the feeling sucks no matter how good a reason there is to explain why the game is no longer what he expected.
Though at this point I am accepting that a good MP LE may well be better than a free trading LE fingers crossed.