Offline mode to be Non-competitive online or hybrid mixed-line mode

Hi, folks.

When I choose the lowest latency region, this game takes a little longer to connect online or in moving areas—10 seconds or more. Sometimes it disconnects randomly. Reading some comments about this issue on the forum, I’m betting it takes longer or multiple seasons to resolve. Ofc, they are aware that it needs to be resolved when the Orobyss exp is launched.

Non-competitive online or mixed-line mode
Introducing non-competitive online or mixed-line mode can mitigate the problem, or replacing current offline mode with it.

None-competitive online mode:

  • Playing solo, it is offline.
  • When multiplayer, it is online.
  • No leader board.
  • You cannot trade with full online players.
  • You can choose MG. This MG market is separated to full online’s. It might limit listing for flooding of goods.
  • You can play with full online players. But, full online players cannot earn exp nor get any loot while playing with the mode’s players. Current online mode should be called competitive online mode, may be. Or, it is simpler not to allow playing with full online players. whichever…
  • Offline or mixed-line char profiles should be sharable their builds on game info sites which are maxroll or le tools or etc.

Again, these connection taking long and occasional disconnect difficulties could be crucial when the Orobyss is released, perhaps. Well renowned competitors have less concern regarding this kind of issue. I hope Krafton and your new crews have solid expertise and solutions for them.

This type of combination was removed as it enforces client-side storage and hence allows rampant cheating.

Cheating in a SP environment is fine, it’s only you which gets the outcomes.
Cheating in any form of MP environment is not.
You cannot in any way/shape or form avoid item duplication, trainers and so on though for said mode.

Also to combined play-mode of full online with the hybrid mode is nonsensical as it provides not a single bit of progress for the ‘full online’ player, hence being in itself a fringe case of ‘lemme help you swiftly with that’ and nothing beyond. It’s not worthwhile to even try to do it in any reasonable timeframe, beyond the one LE is even expected to survive under nigh perfect circumstances.

It’s not a good suggestion overall.

What would be doable though and reliable is having the ability for a offline-mode to have a direct-connect system included which allows Co-op. Hence no online environment in itself but small-scale personalized environments only.

If you want MG then you gotta play online and get a functioning connection. And yes, not every are in the world has accessible or stable internet… but that’s the limitation sadly which we have to work with.

3 Likes

Creating a separate realm just for mixed online/offline would be a tremendous development effort for little return. Very soon the market would be flooded with cheated items and the players that want to play it legitimately would stop using that mode (or playing altogether).

If you play offline at any point, you shouldn’t be allowed to trade at all. Period. This would be a realm where all the cheaters gather together (and even without trade they still will to show their 1337 uber builds with 4xT7+sealed T7+T8. or their 4LP red ring with 4T7). And the legit players would hate being there.

There’s no point in wasting months of development just to make cheaters happy.

I’d rather see LAN/Direct IP connections for offline, like D2 did back in the day. That way, if you want to play with friends but want to avoid all the server issues (or even just avoid other people in general), then you can still connect and play with them.

5 Likes

Okay, no MG nor playing with full online players, I have no problems.
So, you two still can’t accept the idea? We can chose anybody we want to play with. Isn’t this mixed-mode allowed with the proper disclaimers? Is it costly to add or replace with the minor altered mode in this game, which already has both online and offline modes?

I’m simply recalling D3 on console. That is exactly what you are talking about. But, were/are people playing the game and refusing to accept reality? Of course, I’ve heard plenty of complaints about cheats.
If LE introduces this mode with an acceptable disclaimer, I will never care about cheaters. If they were, I would simply say “whatsoever?” Would people truly worry in this situation? Can’t it be acceptable to casual players? I would play full online if I wanted to see leader board or so. Told this environment is kind of sand box, can’t people understand or accept it? I think it can be.

And, yeah, p2p idea is good.

The main issue with your idea is that the offline client can’t have any server communication whatsoever, as per the players requests.
And for your idea to work it would have to communicate with one, in order to save both locally and in the server at the same time.

Overall, it’s just too much development effort for little gain, especially when the game is lacking in other more urgent areas.

Not only that, but while you and a few others might not mind it, having a public facing game (meaning a “game mode”) available to everyone where cheating is rampant would create a negative impression on most players.
Even players that would definitely avoid that mode would generally feel worse just because it exists.

It’s similar to adding a “God mode” in options where you become immortal and clear the whole map with one click. You don’t have to use it, but it just being there cheapens the whole game for legit players.

It’s better for the game (and probably less work) to create LAN/P2P connections.

3 Likes

Well, as mentioned, direct-connect based Co-op is absolutely fine, and would even be great for the true-offline mode!
No server validation is a huge selling point for that after all.

The issue is the ‘choosing who to play with’. That apsect would be severely detrimental for several reasons, and one of them is a killer-argument which has - sadly - no workaround.
The killer one is security in this case. For what you describe we would need a server-based database and a local database. Both need to communicate at this point for cross-play as either data which commonly isn’t seen for the client is sent if the hosting is local… or the data of the local machine is to be sent to the server.

In both cases we have a severe issue.
If the server has to sent to the client then this usually only server-side happening mechanic where you only get the result sent for display-measures would be allowed to be visible. This opens up a massive security risk.
And the same happens the other way around where malicious code can be re-introduced to the server-side through a client as far more varied information has to be handled.
This is a absolute no-go as EHG has no knowledge or capacity to handle this scale of security.

The second is the sheer scope of such a implementation. We’re talking here about net-code, which is known to be one absolute disaster. And in this case we would’ve a hybrid net-code as a official server needs to suddenly communicate with a local environment or the other way around. Not solely providing and giving out specific aspects of data… but full-scale communication to allow synchronization of said data properly between users.
This alone is on the scale of Cycle 2 content alone, without anything else being done. Absolutely not worth it, even if there weren’t any risk attached and the full community would be completely behind it.

The third is the potential userbase which would actually make use of said function. Which as stated is minimal. Out of 1000 people probably 2-3 would make more then small-case usage of it, which is simply not worth it to do, especially given the scope.

Well, Blizzard did the ‘old’ method there still, which is a split between the ‘potential offline’ mode and the ‘only online’ mode. The second is what you’re talking about.

This mandated constant battle-net connection, which is the issue you wanna circumvent after all, right? It’s the mandatory aspect to remove the cheating and not letting it go rampant. The downside? If you loose connection you’re kicked out and you can have significant latency issues. So we’re back to step 1.

The other option for multiplayer was ‘couch co-op’, which didn’t need any form of server authentication. This is the p2p method.

Depending on which type you player you were either ‘online only’ or ‘offline only’.
What your goal is is to combine ‘online only’ with ‘offline only’, this wasn’t present in either D2 or D3.

The closest equivalent is ‘open battle-net’ from D2 in that regard. And while beloved by players still as it allowed a lot of stuff it also was extremely dangerous for the player. We’re talking about people getting malware. We’re talking full-scale here. From white-hat simplistic stuff that’s just annoying and tedious up to becoming part of a bot-network (which is still not dangerous in itself outside of getting ISP blacklisted potentially)… but also had the possibility of spoofers included (Bye bye bank account and identity, you’re now broke and 150 scammers are now ‘you’, prime example of identity theft being possible) or outright malicious code which could directly interact with your hardware, leading to hardware failure in worst-case scenario (luckily rare).
This was a core reason as to why with more sophisticated systems and hence more security issues at more corners over time the open battle-net which solely ran on a simplistic authentification basis to secure your account itself, not your machine was dismantled. Nowadays with ‘Resurrected’ not even allowing TCP/IP connections anymore.
It’s a security nightmare which nowadays is simply not acceptable.

And remember… since you want to combine those people with the online-only players currently it would also mean that online-only is not safe anymore, meaning the whole product isn’t safe.
We don’t need another ‘this game fried my GPU!’ software debacles, this time caused intentionally through malicious code.

So:

No, the proposed option is not acceptable for any user based on basic online security measures nowadays.

But p2p through Steam’s servers is absolutely doable and not too hard to set up ultimately. Just the cross-interaction is not acceptable in any way/shape or form.

1 Like

Thanks for your clear and very detailed reply!
I understand it can not be for security risks.

Well, console D3 is still being run, modified cheat data are still rampant. Is it simply just super lucky we haven’t heard malware or bot network infection issues via console D3? Or just we haven’t known THE REALITY? We can clearly see contaminated data online on console D3. I can’t see it safe after knowing your comment.

1 Like

Playstation leaderboards are actually flooded with cheaters, have always been.

I mean… https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo3/comments/183ly1m/what_the_f_is_this/ ← that says it all basically.

Blizzard is very bad in terms of anti-cheats in Diablo, they actually were better at the times of D2 still… and still some existed, but during D3 they started dropping the ball heavily.

And that’s with authentification and anti-cheat systems in place. Imagine it coming from a local environment.

PS:
Realized the bot and malware aspect was entire glossed over from me.

The reason why it doesn’t happen is the authentification of the client. While the data inside the client can be modified you cannot easily adjust it to do things it shouldn’t do at all, like sending packets which aren’t allowed to be sent.
That what the authentification server does also as a job, and which D3 demands permanent connection… which makes it roughly the same as LE again.
Removing the authentification server is the task though to not have the latency issue. And that would mean removing this safety measure.

1 Like

Thanks again for supplement about bot and malwares. Without being told about server authentication and security, I couldn’t have known the key point.

Yeah, I’ve seen that kind of notorious cheat items many many times.

Cheaters modified not only numbers on item, but also item names. Flavor texts are, uh, I don’t know, but looks modified. Then they send contaminated data, and servers check it and reject it. Cheaters can send not illegal data only. It’s the safe guard. I see.
But, hey! Oh my goodness! modified item name and flavor text? they don’t refer text using ids?

thanks, anyway.
I’m going to next topic.

1 Like

But then it wouldn’t be a true-offline mode, would it? I’m also fine with a p2p online option though I’m not sure it’s worth it given there are already closed servers.

The issue with true offline was not requiring any server connection. I don’t think anyone has an issue with direct connections.

Because the difference between both is that requiring a server connection isn’t initiated by you and will prevent you from playing if the server is down (as seen by the false offline).
Whereas direct connections is something you initiate directly with your friend(s). And it doesn’t go through a server.

So I think it’s absolutely fine for the true offline client to have LAN (which is still offline, your ISP might be down, but you still have LAN) and direct IP connections.

1 Like

Yeah, but if you have a P2P connection then it’s not offline (true or not). As I said, I’m fine with there being P2P, just not in a mode that’s supposed to be properly offline.

It kinda has to. I think many games use Steam’s matchmaking system (unless you know your friend’s IP address), or failing that you’d connect to a 3rd party hosted server for persistent worlds (Valheim). I’m also fine with LAN, both in the offline client & online.

That would not be direct connection, though. Direct connection is what D2 used, where you actually insert the IP to connect to your friend (which then has to configure port forwarding).
No servers in between, your client just works as a server for the game.

Yeah, hence the “unless you know your friend’s IP address”. Using steam or something else to deal with the connection is way easier. But all of it requires you to be online.

If you want to play with someone outside of LAN, then yes, you need to be online.

However, it’s my understanding that the premise of the offline client isn’t that you can’t be online but that you don’t have to be offline.
And being able to direct connect doesn’t stop you from still playing offline without internet connection, which is something a server did.

What?
I’m… not getting the notion there plainly spoken.

So, you don’t want the option for P2P in the ‘offline’ mode? Which is if we go into semantics not coined after being actually offline but instead being coined after not needing server validation.

And the second part which I really don’t get it the simple ‘why?’ outside of being absolutely pedantic for the sake of being pedantic.
It has no downside for anyone in existence to have it. If you play pure offline without a connection then you cannot connect to another person anyway, hence you’re mandated Singleplayer.
And if you do have a connection you can play with someone else you personally choose, classic Co-op style, but instead of couch Co-op is the modern version. No server lists, no nothing, likely direct connect through Steam and that’s it.

You are not affected by it in any way/shape or form. This is literally a ‘if you don’t want to use it just don’t use it’ situation which actually upholds.

Not even. TCP/IP is a pure p2p connection.

Steam servers are just safer and more user-friendly. That’s it.

Google: ‘What’s my IP address?’ ← done for the person which isn’t tech-savy :stuck_out_tongue:

Exactly! :stuck_out_tongue:

Yup. 'Cause words have meanings. I know I’m not the target market for this & it honestly doesn’t affect me (bugs notwithstanding) if you have online-play-capability-in-your-absolutely-true-offline-only game version. But then it’s not “true offline”, it’s just a less-fake-offline. Though personally, I think when you start the game up there should be an offline & P2P/LAN options in addition to login (which takes you to the current MP servers), plus the true-offline version.

Yeah, that’s the “unless you know your friend’s IP address bit”.

Yep, words have meaning.
You need to know the reason for the wording as well, hence derive the proper meaning from em.

In our case ‘offline’ doesn’t mean ‘not connected to a network’ it instead means ‘no need to connect to a network’.
The first removes the option for connection anyway, hence it’s a technical impossibility to create Multiplayer outside of hot-seat.
The second - the actual meaning of the term, because words have meaning as you rightfully state - is absolutely allowing to include multiplayer options as it doesn’t remove the factor of being played offline in that mode, it just adds on top.

PS:
To make it double-clear here.

If you got a ‘online’ game it mandates that usage without a network is a impossibility. Fringe cases are used though which reduce functionality substantially without a network present. That’s the absolute minimum condition for calling it a ‘online game’.

I know, I just disagree.

I find it amazing that offline mode exists in this game and I want them to keep it. (LE is the best positive example in what “Stop Killing Games” likes to achieve).
However there’s a valid argument against offline mode let alone P2P: LE is one of - if not the - most pirated ARPG.