Non ward classes need survival help

i did get a neat wand earlier that gives +5 level to runebolt and thought to myself “maybe runemasters would get further solo before they get one shot…?”

i wish there was an actual ignore feature on the forums, these threads would become instantly more productive.

Click their name. Click it again in the box that pops up. On the following screen, look in the upper rightish area - take ‘normal’ and drop it down to ‘ignored’.

You guys are just hilarious!

@Heavy has more game knowledge than ten times of you guys altogether. You should listen to his advice. Because although you act like idiots, he’s giving you valuable advice.

@Zarono dude… you’re here for 3 years and still haven’t figured out how defensive layers work? Did you never play empowered mono before?? Jez…

There once was a time where there was no Warlock and Falconer ward exploit. It’s barely 2 weeks or so… people played non ward classes in empowered mono back then.

I can imagine that this is too high for you guys… but it is what it is.

I become silly by reading the forums these days.

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neat, i will exorcise this feature immidiately.

This is actually pretty funny because my build is NOT A WARD BUILD.

Did you even look at the planner or did you just see the skills I am using and instantly asuming that I use certain mechanics? (While I clearly don’t if you would look correctly)

The only ward thing I have in my build is the Threshold Passive Accursed Seer. And that is not because of the ward, but because I want the cast speed from the node.

I don’t have any other ward in my skills, gear or passive.

You just shot yourself in the foot big time with accusing me of being deceiving.
I almost exclusviely play health builds, because I like this playstyle way more.

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A little assessment of your character.

You have 1050 HP.
261 threshold with 60% DR. 210 from your HP, 51 from your helmet.
So we could assume your maxHP as ~1350.

Even 85% armour mitigation against physical damage would protect as ~60% against non-physical damage.

You have 82% crit avoidance and 28% crit damage reduction. So a crit can still happen and deal 72% of it’s extra damage.

Your eHP against cold damage are 2836, while you have 4360 eHP against physical.


You have no defensive layer beyond your armor. While your endurance is capped, your threshold is so low that it doesn’t benefit you much.

While there is certainly some imbalance in the current state of the game, you don’t play the existing mechanics to your advantage. Raise your max health, this will automatically raise your endurance threshold and your protection against oneshots, so you have the chance to recover the lost life.

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I’ve been playing paladin to explore endurance/block based defense, and it’s honestly felt really strong to me. I’m like 990 endurance threshold, and not having any problems with empowered monos, even face tanking most boss mechanics. Maybe try changing out some armor gear to get more threshold.

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That is not how eHP works. The 60% DR from endurance will get calculated onto the incoming damage, giving it a massive eHP boost. So 261 Edurances Threshold is increasing the eHP from 1050 (without any endurance) to 1441

Armor is 70% effective against non-physical damage, not 60%

I am also not sure how OP thinks he has 85% DR from armor, they are not even close to that.
There is about 44000 armor missign for that, that will not even be achieved with some temporary buffs :smiley:

But I still agree with your overall assessment of his cahracter. just wanted to point out a couple of minor things that were not 100% correct.

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There was acompletely different enemy design before 1.0. The enemys werwe less dense and didn’t have a % modifier increasing their HP and DMG and emp monos started with 0 Corruption. I don’t know how long you are here but you missed a few steps on your way.

Non ward builds from before 1.0 feel worse after 1.0 and you have to look out for much more stuff. I f you play melee builds things are even worse. That’s just an observation of my before and after 1.0 experiences.

The game is playable and builds can work out just fine but you have to constantly be on the lookout becuase to much hits in sucsession will kill your toon.

that’s still a defense of a bad system, at this point we’re saying players should accept the current state which goes something like this:

did the attack kill you?

Ward class:

if no: ignore it, it doesn’t matter.

if yes: get more ward.

Non ward class:

if no: keep an eye on it, but don’t stress for now.

if yes: okay check your resistances, armor, endurance, endurance threshold, health, monolith affixes, corruption level, star sign, horoscope, phase of the moon, day of the week, and bribery funds for the RNGesus.

it’s lopsided. it feels bad, and no amount of “get gud and sacrifice every damage stat on your character to survive one f***ing hit” will make it feel less bad.

I’m playing paladin too. Anvil stance, vengeance (for the buffs), rive+healing hands, no ward. I’m only at 140 corruption yet, with some resistances seriously low. I can survive just fine on ~2,9k health.

Yeah, I wasn’t fact-checking my memories, that’s why I mentioned the “IIRC” part. Thanks for the correction.

I agree, it’s more challenging to play non-ward melee.

You missed earths magnetic field… there you go problem solved.

Yes but the cost/profit of playing melee is -1 so I stay away from it. I made a little test today and played two times the same mastery to a certain point. One ranged and one melee and I intentonaly played like a dumbass and chareged in headfirst or simply stood there casting and not moving. Ranged toon 0 deaths melee toon several near death ecperiences and died 13 times. I’m not the kind of guy that needs to play the most engaging build who looks for the ultimate challange I just want to have a good time. Sadly I don’t have a good time with melee builds anymore thanks to the chages of 1.0 ^^. That’s a me problem for sure so no problem at all i just play stuff I don’t like and uninstall the game faster.

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well mercury is in retrograde so the magnetic field won’t matter until april

I don’t have a problem with calling out some imbalances.

I’m sorry to say, but your character is a very bad example to revolve the discussion around.

This is not an excuse for LE - but melee usually gets the short end of the stick in almost every game.
I agree, playing melee is more difficult and - aside from subjectively having more fun - in no way advantageous. You’re neither inherently more tanky, nor faster, nor do you deal more damage.

Especially melee needs some love, conceptually - but this thread seems to be another version of “ward vs life”, not melee vs ranged.

Ok, so to address it completely:

Capped res is a good start.
Armor that high is a good start, doesn’t help against DoT damage though.
Endurance threshold seems ok, 350*0,6 = an extra 210 HP.
Crit immunity is baseline defense, a necessity anyway.

So you also mentioned it’s 1/3rd of your life.
My answer:

Ignore endurance completely, go for raw HP.
Currently your EHP-pool is 1310 with endurance taken into account.
You need around 1800 HP.

Aim for that.

The easiest way to achieve it is to remove idols and instead put %health + flat health ones inside, this will bring you up to that amount.

So it’s 200% a you issue from what you provided in information.
Always imagine it’s a you issue first and foremost, having missed something, as you did here.

Yes, it is. Because you need to know the difference between ‘hit’ and ‘DoT’ and how armor/block/dodge interact with those.

That’s why low EHP but high defensive builds are not as viable as high EHP but low defensive ones.

EHP is king forst and foremost. Tier 1.

Then comes resistances and crit evasion, you need to cap both, for res close to cap.

Afterwards:

Stop whining and rushing into hyperbole. It doesn’t help you nor anyone else.

Nah, it’s your issue for not understanding the system.
It’s the same if you go with ridiculous amounts of defensive measures but 2k HP through PoE. Let me tell you… you won’t have a good time.

Nah, once more… hyperbole.
You need the base res, you need crit avoidance, you need EHP.
A bit of armor is always good against hit damage.
Endurance only gets better after a while when you have already enough EHP, because endurance scales off of your life pool. Hence low life (like… 1,1k) and it’s a useless stat suddenly rather then a great one.

Wrong focus simply, but that one’s basic math.

What do you mean? ‘Out of doable content’? You can’t run non-empowered monoliths? Go and run a few with idols, get a few flat or % life increase ones, slam then into your setup, you’re good to go.

Don’t be lazy.

Yes, your example is the prime problem ‘give me stuff quicker! It’s too slow!’
Sorry to say, this game is faster then many competitors already, if you want something faster I recommend Diablo 3 or Torchlight Infinite. Last Epoch is not the game for you in that case simply.

You’re the equivalent of people whining in Dark Souls games about a easy mode. So obviously people won’t take you seriously.

Stop the hyperbole, thing about your words, don’t insult others and don’t behave like a 12 year old.
If you are one… leave until you’re 18 and come back.

Given new content is around the corner with 1.1 adjustements to the xp system would be premature.
The game is gone and done by 85, everything beyond I’ll call ‘vanity levels’. Empowering you to push further, not needed to finish any sort of content.

Play longer in the same area and that happens!
Being beyond the level suggestion means bonus xp, nice!

Because the power scale of your character doesn’t align with the difficulty of the enemies at that stage. At least commonly.

As we can see with someone seemingly playing ‘since 3 years’ and having failed to access the importance of EHP (which is of importance in every ARPG) I’m very inclined to infer that you’re generally not thinking all too deeply into things but prefer to just ‘go with it’. And when it doesn’t align with your expectations you’re going pikachu-faced and well… here we are.

Then compare it to me, Detonate Arrow re-made into melee with two daggers that have basically 0 range, needing constant positioning especially at bosses while also being a rogue without changing dodge to glancing blows.

And guess what… I still manage to survive utterly fine!

It’s not a good build at all, glass-cannon even, hard to play one too… but hella fun.

So… should I be ignored as well?

Oh, PS:
I don’t get one-shot despite shitty defenses in comparison for that stage of the game.

Also after reading through the topic and @HorusKBZ as mentioned… OP is not even truthful about the stats he has, bolstering them upwards from reality and even then people told him ‘Why? That’s just wrongly built!’. So the reality is even worse.

Overall… this threat feels more like a clown-show then an actual discussion.
People could help (and actually do) but it’s brushed off with senseless complaints and whining rather then adjustements to the character.

Also as an addendum:
Yes, some enemy mechanics are absolutely out of line or invisible in some stages.
That needs to be adjusted.
Is it impossible to play around it?
Hell no! All easily doable with a bit of tactical adjustment.
Does it warrant changes?
A few things to need tweaking clearly, but by no means does it warrant the kind of reaction shown here by OP… not even remotely.

I can understand the frustration coming from being stuck, but damn… insulting other people left and right for pointing out mistakes? That’s just a personal fault and has nothing to do with the game itself. Listen to the suggestions, try em out, see the results… and afterwards go and complain if they persist.

But well, since we know they won’t persist that can’t happen, right? :rofl:

Aw… no, Maknum. I’m here for a long time now. Just changed my name some months ago (as you did, too :wink:). We know each other, dude.

I’ve clocked 2.1k hours in LE since 2019. “Completely different enemy design” is a bit of an exaggeration. And the general statement “all non ward builds get one shot in emp monos Echo 1” is… unbelievable.

I have no idea why I’m shown as maknum to you ^^.

If you go back to 0.9X the game was mindnumbingly boring compared to now. Now I have to dodge almost everything playing melee while for example my smite cast paladin isn’t caring about nothing on emp mono start… just facetank the world. If I try the same as VK warpath build I’m dead in the water vs normal mobs now.

As someone who clocked over 3k hours as well I observe a big difference in numbers. before 1.0 i just caped my crit avoidence and had a good time untill 300 corruption with enoiugh HP. If I do the same now on a melee build and play the same way i was able to do prior to 1.0 I’m dead in the water in seconds.

The demand on skill and doing decissions rather fast has increased and you need to act on a much earlier corruption state then you needed prior to 1.0.

I don’t think that’s a bad thing but it benefits some playstyles far more then others and makes the game a bit iffy for some because a player new to LE is maybe a bit overwhelmed and I can see people die while they think they (or do run) run a good build with nice numbers.

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