Could you explain a bit more about penetration? What do you mean by regression hits at 2.4x rate?
A simple chart that can explain how its calculated. The rate of the more value regresses or gets less effective from the 20 pen to the 40 pen in the case of the dreamthorn 2h sword. For a level 75 area. (Edit for clarification)
| DMG | PEN | DR | ACT | More |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 100 | 0 | 75 | 25 | |
| 100 | 10 | 75 | 35 | 1.4 |
| 100 | 20 | 75 | 45 | 1.285714286 |
| 100 | 30 | 75 | 55 | 1.222222222 |
| 100 | 40 | 75 | 65 | 1.181818182 |
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Neat!
I’ve got a T6 added void / T5 melee % gathering dust, myself. I’m looking forward to breaking it out for this.
yea, it will be nice to experiment with. I see it working in a couple of ways but until I see the whole tree I am still kind of meh on it.
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While I appreciate the effort to show that alot of stats have diminishing return, you have a major flaw in your table.
Enemies have 0 resistance, which makes weaker, but gives it way less diminishing return.
Not on a desktop right now, but, with the numbers you presented the table would look like this:
mobs have damage reduction by the level of the area do they not? that was based on a level 75 area and base penetration starts at area level (scaled).
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Mobs do have damage reduction, but that is Literally “Damage Reduction”.
Mobs do not have resistance nor armour, unless otherwise stated (some mob types have a single high resistance, like Profane Flesh, where it states “Resists Necrotic Damage” on the mob affixes)
right, I just had a wrong header. I fixed that based on the level 75 area. Now if you know for certain that it is still 1% per level scaled that is where the question comes in. I have not seen a clear answer to that.
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I think nobody knows what the exact figure is.
I don’t think the devs ever stated that.
Not sure if they even want to give that information.
But from a game mechanics standpoint it doesn’t matter, since it will not effect any of the other damage calculations, since that “mysterious DR” is the only DR mobs get.
Well the obvious reason for having a base damage of 2 on skills is so that at 1% reduction at level 100 area = 100% so the base damage is 1, so there is still the ability to do damage. At least that is what my past experience in game development tells me.
I would more than welcome to listen and learn from this, but based on what the damages we see on the screen that logic has to hold some weight.
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Not every skill has a base damage of 2.
There are skills with way more than 2.
On top of that 1% per area level would not work, when this DR works the same as normal damage reduction, since it would lead to mobs being invulnerable.
I’m not sure that having yet-another-stackable-DoT is particularly different… At least Time Rot as was was relatively different (there only being 1 other ailment that reduced attack/cast speed).
I agree, but it doesn’t even reduce their attack/cast speed anymore. But I agree, it would be nice if it did it’s own thing, maybe it interrupted every X seconds (likely too powerful) or increased cooldowns, or caused melee attacks to miss x% of the time (like a melee Blind) would be nice.
The amount of damage reduction a mob gets is irrelevant since it can’t be modified in any way. The 1% you’re thinking of is their penetration of our resists.
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I know that there are skills with way more than 2 base damage. I used the most common one as an example of how 2 gets reduced to 1 by the 1% per level method. I used this in other gaming titles, so I know it works. They would not go invulnerable, its that you do not get 2x damage just the flat values that need to follow the damage calculations in the game guide. That damage calculation is not what gets applied from what I see, there is some sort of reduction. Anyways good discussion and it may remain a mystery.
No, that is from early experimentation with the dummy damage not matching in area damage to the mobs
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Yes, but it’s not 1% per level. If it were they’d be immune to damage at lvl 100… It goes up to somewhere around 90% at lvl 100. But it still doesn’t matter because it doesn’t get modified in any way by your penetration.
Yeah, there’s an area level damage reduction that gets applied after the damage is calculated, similar to how resists work, but is not modifiable in any way so one might as well ignore it.
Thank you, I understand both yours and heavy’s answers. It just does not work out that way in application. I agree with heavy that there is a “mysterious DR”. I doubt anyone from EHG will come out and say how the applied damage works.
They give us the concepts and base formulas but I think its a long way off to be finalized so they refrain from saying anything to preserve the integrity of the game.
We should table this discussion for we have hi-jacked this thread.
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The devs are happy to discuss the basic mechanics of the game, such as how damage or resists/etc work. They just don’t necessarily want to discuss how to get specific items to drop (the Shade uniques).
Is about the closest I’ve seen a dev reply on this subject. It’s quite interesting & not what I would have expected, though understandable given the desire to not make Freeze/Stun irrelevant or massively overpowered. However that was best part of a year ago & things have changed a bit since then.
Though this one:
answers your question specifically:
https://imgur.com/mrDJpqD
After this snippet and the Sentinel rework I like to guess if things will change, this is what I think -
-
The VK passive might change to incorporate movement skills because currently any skill that echoes (with up to 350% damage when a skill echoes) is simply stronger or if this doesnt happen then Idols are reworked or echoes themselves changed
-
Abyssal Echoes will change to some kind of buff that will not necessarily ‘echo’ an attack but duplicate the damage in some form. The reason for this Warpath and this new skill are ‘movement’ abilities which cannot echo
-
The new skill has a node that casts Abyssal Echoes on hit im assuming which will duplicate the hit if my above idea is correct, if Abyssal Echoes still remains similar in the pull effect this and Void Slash with autocasting a pull spell would be really good clear but you would need to time the attack optimally, it also means basically ‘100% more damage’ at the cost of a secondary skill (assuming after casting Abyssal you deal more damage for that hit)
The problem is the movement tag not interacting with echoes from skills, something needs to change to allow Warpath and this skill to echo so im keen to see the changes
In regards to Penetration in this game - I always try to stack it wherever I can as traditional RPGs its a huge damage source usually, in Grim Dawn its virtually mandatory in some areas at end game as I think some mobs have up to 80-90% resistance
in LE penetration does virtually nothing for me, I roll it on amulets to make myself feel better but ultimately dont really notice anything. Armor Shred/Shred in general is a different story I see big damage increases from shred especially in longer fights. If penetration is weak I would prefer if it was simply removed as an affix and replaced with shred of that element.
So amulets could get Lightning shred at say 40% at T5 on an amulet, that way the blessing is still better. Poison shred would probably be not required for people since they get it for free anyway so it doesnt matter for those characters
You’re unlikely to notice a 9% more damage modifier. Whereas shred would be up to 20% on a boss. Armour shred could be even more if you attack fast (or have minions to shred for you).
Interesting change that is making me do some theory crafting in my empty head. I’m trying to not get too excited yet until we see more of what’s happening.
Gimme Time Rot proccing on Hammer Throw!!! Time Rot/Disintegrating Aura Hammers! Make it happen!