I died like 2 seconds before the Nemesis, it dropped all the gear and therefor I lost a really nice legendary. Nemesis should not be able to die after you, then you won’t lose the loot.
But if you die before the nemesis then it has vanquished you. I think that if you die to a nemesis then you should lose access to its loot, why they allow you to die and still claim its rewards I don’t really understand.
1 Like
Should go both ways. We had already suggested something like this for 1.0 content like Orobyss dropping 40 prophecy items at once only to kill us with some lingering shit after the fact.
1 Like
I agree with @MindBlayde.
There is no risk involved in Nemsis to begin with. The case of defeating it and then dying before looting is unfortunate and can be annoying I agree.
But not being at risk loosing the items if you challenge it an fail is something I donvt understand.
Last Epoch needs more mechanics that have risk and rewards.
Right now there is so little penalty for dying. This new system would make perfect sense for a risk/reward mechanic. Especially because you can see what you would get.
All other penalties so far are only using potential loot (echo rewards)
5 Likes
Disagree, at least for the casual elements and on lower then tier 4 dungeons. They suffer to same thing. Drop 10 frames due to latency and havs fun running 15 min back through the entire re-clear. They are also horrible to learn.
My idea you should be able to try bosses for a specific time limit. Maybe 5-15 min. That gives you around 5 attempts (assuming they also add a port back to boss room)
Not only can you see exactly what you’ll get, you can also upgrade it three times and then try it as many times as you need to get the loot. Zero risk / reward, just reward with zero risk.
You can only “upgrade” (empower) it two times, then you have to challenge (or banish) the nemesis.
It’s just not intuitive to have 0 penalty if you die and Nemesis survive but if it’s a draw you lose the items. To always lose the items if you fail is more clear but I don’t like the idea.
Imagine using Rune of Ascendances to find the Unique you want, and then finding a Nemesis which has an egg so you can Upgrade said Unique. Only to die to poison after killing it and seeing all your loot shine on the death screen. This is absolutely shattering.
4 Likes
This is not exactly what OP described, though. The case is that he died FIRST, then Nemesis died to some dot or smth, dropping all lot while he was already dead.
I agree there should be a risk/reward situation involved, but it really makes no sense regarding how the Nemesis system works right now, in which if you die to them, but they survive, you can still get your loot normally next time you find them, even if you were empowering something in the egg.
If it’s really intended to be that way, then I agree with OP, the Nemesis should become invulnerable the moment your character dies.
3 Likes
This is a big problem. Just happened to me and I’m just gonna call it quits for the season. It doesn’t make sense that loot disappears after dying in an echo in general. Take away the stability or whatever, but we should be able to go back into an echo. I’m not playing hardcore. This shouldn’t feel like hardcore. Other ARPGs allow you to use portals in nearly everything for a reason.
2 Likes
Just had this happen to me as well but I was lazy and tried to tank the poison damage which persisted after the nemesis died which I think is currently very overtuned for the difficulty to begin with.
The problem with LE in general is they have some great systems (or ideas) but they lack balance and release these systems half cooked.
Happened to me today es well, also with an item upgrsded in the egg. Man, I felt a rush of anger and the desire to break the keyboard.
But then, shit happens.
Today I also lost the boots I was wearing, because I was playing with a unique, forgot about it and sold them. Yesterday I lost half of my small idols because I decided to sort them on the floor and only later realized thst they did not all fit and the game must have placed them off screen where I neither could see nor grab them.
My advice would be to accept and to move on.
When this happens hit Alt+Z twice and it will re-sort them closer together.
1 Like
It once happened to me and it’s extremely frustrating and honestly shouldn’t be part of the game. The current solution I found is to go to some low corruption Mono or leveling area to do the 3rd Nemesis which just feels off but I can’t risk losing rare uniques to some randomness.
I agree that it feels bad to lose items this way, I feel like it’s more an issue with how Echoes work in general. You’re already losing the bonuses when you die in an Echo, it should just respawn you in the same instance so you don’t have to re-clear the whole instance again, for no rewards. I get what people are saying about having more risk-reward though, I feel like having drops disappear on death should be an option at character creation, like SSF.
Great news!
Mike said on last Friday Dev Stream that they’re working on a quick fix for this situation when we die first, then the Nemesis die to some DoT or persistent effect. When this happens, Nemesis won’t drop any loot, and we’ll be able to get the items normally on the next encounter.
Source: Aaron’s quick recap on the live stream, starting at 08:10, Mike talks about this Nemesis fix.
Last Epoch Dev Stream 145 - Recap by ActionRPG
1 Like
The argument of ‘my ISP is shit, so make it easier’ is not a viable one.
Never was, never will be.
It’s how logout macros in PoE happened and destroyed the Hardcore community for years.
Hard no on that argumentation line.
Yes, but you died to the fight, which is viable.
But I understand also that such mechanics need to have a handle on how to deal with ‘death after win’ conditions.
The solution for this one is also fairly simple… have the Nemesis provide a interactable item at the end. If nobody is in the instance anymore then reset to before killing the Nemesis.
If your death-state happens before the Nemesis then it ‘won’ and your loot is gone.
This way you get a re-try if you deserve it but not if you don’t.
If the Nemesis dies after you it should count as ‘lost’ anyway, so loosing your items. If they ‘taunt’ you with their existence or not is just a slap in the face but one we have to deal with. A ‘fair’ slap so to say 
This is based on the assumption that if you die normally to a Nemesis (which doesn’t die) you lose the loot, which isn’t true. If you die to a Nemesis, you’ll encounter it next in the same state as the previous one. This only happens when both die at the same time (either shortly before or shortly after).
One of them is easier to fix, which is simply that if you die and the Nemesis dies after that, he doesn’t drop the loot.
The other is more tricky because you could be dying from something non-Nemesis related (you could be fighting the nemesis along with a pack of mobs you attracted, or a spire). But there is also a simple solution to this, which is to immediately cancel every single DoT and ailment caused by the Nemesis when it dies. Then, if you die, it’s from other game related things and that’s just part of the game.
Of course, the best solution of all would simply be having instanced zones, but we know that that is something that isn’t as easy to change and they’re working on it.
1 Like
That’s why I said to create the interactable when the Nemesis dies.
That should take care of that. You have to go there, click on it and get your items out this way, hence you can ensure you’re ‘safe’ before doing it. You can’t during a fight.
1 Like