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I like that many skills in LE have skill tree nodes that trigger subskills. It opens a new way to create interesting builds around these subskills. However, I tried to look up the in-game guide and online posts on how exactly they work but could find any definitive resources.
As far as I understand, Subskills are the skills that usually triggered by another skill and don’t have their own skill tree. On the other hand, Normal Skills are the ones found on the Skills & Specialization panel and have their own skill trees.
However, there are a few questions that are unclear:
If a normal skill triggers a subskill, does the skill node (e.g. more damage nodes) in the normal skill tree applies to the subskill when not explicitly mentioned in the skill node description?
For example, Devouring Orb can trigger Void Rift on kill. The node Soul Gorger explicitly mentions it increase Void Rift damage. The node Distant Satellite doesn’t explicit mention Void Rift so I assume it doesn’t apply?
Some subskills can be triggered by multiple normal skills (and/or items), usually one of the normal skill is the main trigger source, while the rest are secondary trigger sources. Does the subskill have different damage scaling when triggered by different normal skills or will it always be the same damage scaling? Are the nodes from these triggering skills all apply to the subskill at the same time or only the nodes on the normal skill that currently triggering the subskill apply?
For example, Erasing Strike can also trigger Void Rift on kill. The node Implements of Destruction says increased Void Rift area when using 2h axe. If I take both this node and the Soul Gorger node, are they both apply to the Void Rift created by Devouring Orb and Erasing Strike? The Chance to cast Void Rift on Kill idol affix and the Locket of the Forgotten Knight set amulet can also trigger Void Rift on any skill kills/hits, does any of the nodes mentioned above apply?
Some subskills are also modified by Unique items. Are these mods from the Unique always apply regardless of how the subskill is triggered?
Are there anything else that scaling the damage/speed etc. of the subskill beside the Scaling Tags on the subskill?
Note that I only use some subskills as examples but there are many more in the game. My suggestion is to
use consistent and clear patterns/languages when mentioning subskills in tooltips to help players understand how subskills work and scale. (Can be put in the [Alt] Additional Information section to reduce information overload for beginners.)
create a new page in the in-game guide to describe how the subskills work in general.
Correct, they apply regardless of what source triggers them.
4. Not that I’m aware of. It’s just the tags and anything that specifically mentions them (like uniques and certain skill nodes. You gave examples of these, like Soul Gorger).
You should give some examples of how this is not the case.
Actually, yes. Any damage modifiers that aren’t implicitly excluded (ie, more hit damage on a node won’t apply to any ailments or subskills with the DoT tag, or more melee damage won’t apply to subskills/procs with the spell tag) are inherited by the ailment or subskill/proc (unless the proc is a fully fledged skill, then it’s the other way round & modifiers are only inherited if they explicitly state they are).
Thank you both for clarifying my questions in the example!
You should give some examples of how this is not the case.
If the language is consistent and clear, then you and Llama8 probably would not have different understanding of how the nodes work. And I probably won’t have these many questions.
Another example is the Abyssal Echoes skill. The skill itself doesn’t deal any damage. By default, it applies the Abyssal Decay ailment to enemies the echo reaches. The skill can trigger two subskills:
Void Rift from Nether Breach node, which is a spell that deals hit damage.
Abyssal Rift from the Screaming Rifts node, which is a spell similar to Abyssal Echoes. Abyssal Rift also does no damage and applies Abyssal Decay.
Then the node Vorpal Explosion says “Abyssal Echoes deals significantly more damage, but no longer chains.” (Which sounds strange at first glance, since Abyssal Echoes deals no damage.) How do we know whether the node affects the damage of any of
Abyssal Decay directly triggered by Abyssal Echoes;
Abyssal Decay triggered by Abyssal Rift from Screaming Rifts node; and
Hmm, I tested in game on the arena dummy, even with some vitality (I have 21), the initial use of Abyssal Echoes deals no damage. Only the DoT from Abyssal Decay ailment deals damage.
How do you know the Abyssal Echoes deals damage? If it does, is it a hit or DoT?
Because Vorpal Explosion doesn’t say anything that would exclude it from affecting those things you mention.
Vorpal Explosion is a generic 80% more damage modifier, that means it gets inherited by anything that does damage that Abyssal Echoes does/applies. So any ailments (eg, Abyssal Decay or ignites) or subskills (Void Rifts or Abyssal Rifts) that would be applied or triggered would inherit the 80% more damage.
If you pay close attention, usually a skill that can deal damage also has a section in the LETools says what’s the base damage type, crit chance (5% for hit and 0 for DoT), crit multi, Added Damage Effectiveness, and whether it’s a hit (here is an example Judgement). But Abyssal Echoes doesn’t have that section.
Comparing Judgement with Abyssal Echoes, Judgement has an initial hit damage on use, as well as a separate DoT damage for the Consecrated Ground it creates. But Abyssal Echoes only applies the Abyssal Decay ailment and doesn’t hit.
The Vitality scaling is probably applied to the Abyssal Decay ailment damage.
Yes, that’s because it’s base damage is zero so I imagine that Dammit’s site doesn’t put that section on for any skills that have 0 base damage (like Holy Aura or Symbols of Hope).
