Well, besides Void Knight with Erasing Strike the only other builds which killed Uberroth in a reasonable timeframe were Heartseeker builds.
But yes, they need substantially higher skill levels from the player to pull it off, that I can fully agree with.
Which is fine though, it has at least the capacity, which can’t be said about… 90% of the game’s builds in total, basically nothing does that content, or is even able to despite hundreds of hours of effort put into a build to make it happen.
There’s a ton of work EHG has to put into balance, it’s severely off, and sadly not the only major construction site of the game currently, there’s too many major ones at once.
i can see truth in your words. if you absolutely want to min max, i believe it can be very difficult in LE as everything would boil down to getting lucky with drops.
in POE you could somewhat manipulate how you craft an item. it would cost a bomb but you can get much more better optimized super end game gear more consistently compared to LE.
no worries, i usually unapologetically bash poe a lot tho. how my friends put it is POE is my abusive ex gf that i always end up going back to. i hate her but sometimes she tickles my fancy and i come back and hate myself for it lol
Is this per mastery? I don’t really understand where you got this number.
That is the base value at 100c corruption. At higher corruptions it goes up to 75%, so on average 3 keys per 4 harbingers. Which means your math is 3x higher than it really is.
Or those that don’t but that simply take their sweet time getting there.
They killed Uby in 2-3 days into the season, so no.
A week into the season you already had a lot of individual kills with Sentinel, Falconer and snapshotting crows.
LE is actually both more casual than D4 and more “hardcore” than PoE. It doesn’t position itself as a straight line between them.
It starts off way easier than D4 (new characters will often struggle until they find legendaries for their skills), then the curve will start to grow until it grows exponentially at endgame, surpassing PoE. It actually gets closer to D2 levels where getting your endgame gear (including well rolled runewords) would take hundreds of hours and required a lot of luck, both for drops and for runeword rolls.
So, on average, it’s somewhere in between both. But at points it’s easier than D4 and at others it’s harder than PoE. It’s how I’ve always looked at LE.
You don’t need to get one with both affixes. That is why I said your bottleneck is how many havocs/redemptions you can farm.
Those runes changed MG a lot, and I think players haven’t really figured it out yet. You don’t need to find your affixes now. You just need to find double exalts with any affix and then try to manipulate them with them.
You can even try to craft the desired affixes into them at T1 and then switch them.
Exactly that, and it’s also the exact thing I call out in LE.
I’m not speaking about anything before starting to reach those parts, it’s just about the existence of the options at all… not the QoL behind them or how many players actively use the options.
Just plainly what is implemented to reach this result.
At the beginning it was a bit similar to how LE’s crafting worked, you got your item, your basic crafting materials and good luck with that! Getting a mirror-tier item was basically impossible, but the amount of bases was less, 12 bases per type compared to the 20 nowadays.
Then they added 5 new bases for a total of 17 per type, added more tiers for every Affix and included the crafting bench. The bench was directly included to alleviate the new RNG implemented. This is equivalent to implementing exalted items in LE. WHat the bench did was removing the need to have 6 Affixes perfect at once… but only 3, you had something to always come back to and only the last slam was dangerous.
Then came annulment orbs to allow saving that with a 50% chance. New bases again, reduction of RNG with Bestiary crafts (imprinting) again, then removal of imprints after Delve since the reduction of RNG from fossil crafting made it too easy to reach the top-end. Veiling with Betrayal, Synthesis/Fractured modifiers after, Harvest crafting then which added another viable method to craft, this time not as the starting space but the follow-up when you already got a working started item (unlike Fossils which ignore crafting bench mods simply). Then followed even more bases with the conqueror influences and then even more bases since a short while for the final 20 we have per type.
And nowadays we got the recombinator to alleviate the RNG even more by allowing us to combine 2 items simply together either at the hopes the right Affixes stick or deterministic with a percentile chance that’s ridiculously high actually when taken into individual consideration compared to everything else available.
So GGG did actively work on trying to get the ability for ‘mirror-tier’ crafts actively in order at any time. They knew ‘people want to reach for the stars’ and hence gave players the ability to do so. Their issue is the QoL along this route, and the sheer complexity the game has nowadays with the myriad of ways to achieve things.
I mean… barely anyone knows you can get bases with pre-fractured temple modifiers through unique vaal side areas, ask 100 streamers and maybe 1 or 2 will know. Many many obscure things. And that’s an issue as a proper in-game method allowing targeted decision making is needed for them.
In LE we got the other problem… EHG doesn’t allow to reach the top end, and that causes min-maxers to ‘fizzle out’ as they have no clear-cut goal ahead.
Character slots, unless you wanna delete one. But it’s arbitrary, ignore it.
Fair, didn’t take that into consideration, my bad.
Yes, 8 people, working together to pool resources, while pre-planning for weeks to find the optimal route.
And you as an individual wanna do it in a reasonable timeframe?
And that’s the issue!
Yes, and then rolling the right mods on it and having FP left to actually finish the craft.
Which mandates:
Having the right base
The base having 2 T7 on it already (which is a bit of a unicorn in MG by itself)
Having the result of getting the right Affixes on the item itself without already bricking it
Hitting the right Affixes with T7
Having enough FP leftover to max out the other Affixes (As with the first option you got a experimental one on it, which makes it kinda hard to achieve, second is easier as mentioned)
This process is massive, that’s a 100+ bases process. And as mentioned before… getting 2 T7 on the right base alone is hard, really hard, I’m talking about tens of hours for a single drop here.
All is a numbers game, but in our case the numbers are not in our favor.
The realism of execution is just really really low.
You seemed to ignore the several solo kills that also happened in the first week.
That is the major flaw of EHG with this type of content. They’re too optimistic. Aby had a one week limitation or first kill before going to legacy. Aby was killed in less than 24h.
With Uby they didn’t even bother implementing that limitation because they likely knew that some broken builds would do it way earlier. Which they did.
I honestly don’t actually see an issue with it. You can position yourself wherever you want along the curve.
Are you an ultra casual that doesn’t want to bother grinding too much? You can stay in 100c forever. Or even in normal monos.
Are you a semi-casual that doesn’t mind some grind but hates the ultra endgame grind? Stay at 500c or so.
Are you a min-maxer that wants to grind forever? Just push corruption and do 2k+.
Are you Abomb? Stay in the imaginary mandatory range of 700-1000c.
The only thing lacking in LE right now is endgame alternatives. Because players can already stop at any point in that curve that they feel is fun for them.
This is different from PoE where most mechanics are horizontal. Meaning the difficulty curve is mostly always the same. You either have a good enough build to do the mechanics or you avoid it altogether and stick to clearing maps.
But once you can do one mechanic, you can do them all in the same genre (I’m applying genre here as in mechanics that mob you immediately and ones that don’t, since those have different requirements).
If your build can handle ritual, it can likely handle breach. The difficulty for both is similar in that you need to either survive the initial mobbing or you need to have a way to immediately kill everything.
What I mean by all this is that PoE doesn’t really have a smooth curve where you can park yourself and feel content. It has bumps which you need to overcome to reach the next comfortable threshold.
Whereas LE is linear and you can simply part at whatever corruption you feel comfortable with and have fun in.
Not saying that PoE is bad/worse and LE is good/better. Just that some people, like me, will enjoy this more than constant “mini-walls” PoE has. Because corruption scaling is basically smooth until it stops being so, which means you can have a clear place to stop.
I agree with everything else you have said, but I disagree with this - I’m at 250 corruption with my Marksman using Heartseeker, without much trouble at all (I did die a lot in 300 corruption, though), without any high end item. I’m far from being the best player in the world, but I could manage with this build.
But I agree with you - playing a Sentinel is far, far easier than any other profession I have tried so far.
I agree completely with you, that’s exactly what I feel as well. It’s almost like GGG doesn’t like their players.
Kulze, let’s be honest, you always make novel-sized posts
But I agree with DJSamhein here. I’m sure I could craft “perfect” items in PoE in less time than in LE… If I got a PhD in PoE. Without that, it’s far, far easier and faster to get great items in LE than in PoE.
All games on the market which do excessively well cater to a specific group of players as the core aspect… and branch out from there to include more people.
All games in the market which one time did excessively well and then tapered off because of gameplay reasons did so because they switched up who they cater towards and hence people left without a new core audience coming in.
So as I ask repeatedly: Who is EHG’s core audience?
It’s not the casuals clearly, because they get screwed over by difficulty spikes like Lagon and Aberroth for the most pronounced ones.
It’s not the mid-tier players either, because they get already bored out at the campaign.
And it’s by far not the min-maxers as their itemization design works counter to enjoyment of optimization with a end-goal.
So that leaves people which are in the niche areas between all that… and the others? Tourists mostly, come a week, look at stuff, leave. Long-term players are surprisingly scarce in LE.
Just look at the Twitch coverage… the game had 72,5k viewers pre-release and at release it was at 1124 viewers until it fell off the expected 14 days later to 200 average roughly over the next week to return to 40-50 average.
That’s 1.2 stats.
PoE comparison:
Pre release 34k, so vastly less then Last Epoch. But at release? 104k, 1 week 36k 2 weeks 25k
If you wanna talk about ‘retention’ here you have the success clearly shown. Twitch numbers directly correlate with sale numbers by the way, unlike many other metrics. Visibility on Twitch is to a massive degree causal for sales.
If we take D4 in comparison then we got nothing pre-release (they suck at those things and hence nobody cares) 27k release, 1 week 9,7k, 2 weeks 4,8k.
Both D4 and PoE align well with expected retention rates. Last Epoch does not percentile wise.
Why is that? Because few people are happy with the game long-term but many enjoy it really shortly and come back to see ‘if something changed’. Hopes are still there but you can’t keep running a live-service game on hopes and dreams.
Distinct design problem by the way.
Without a clear-cut goal retention is lower. Also showcases in Twitch visibility.
But you’re right that it can be a flavor related thing definitely… though the question is if EHG does want to create their game with the very very few people comparatively in mind that enjoy this type… or they prefer to go the more prevalent route.
Which also relates a bit to this:
Which is… ‘eh’… I would say.
Neither system - be it scaling or handcrafted - has mandatory walls existing, they can both be smooth. That’s plainly spoken not the issue there.
And PoE really doesn’t have any sort of wall, the tier progression upwards in difficulty feels… similar actually, not much difference from running T2 to T5, or T8 to T11… the modifier mostly cause that since white/yellow/red maps can spawn different ones and they start screwing you over in combination easily.
But content wise? Ritual can be really easy… or you can combine it with gigantified exiles you ‘collect’ in them to then re-use at another map which causes ridiculous amounts of loot to drop… and that is a strat which is insane. Breach for example is straight-forward, yes… but the majority of mechanics? Absolutely not, you can change the difficulty of them substantially, as well as the reward… and even the type of difficulty.
Don’t wanna deal with the enemies in Blight? Take the node which makes you deal basically no damage but the tower a massive amount! There’s a variety of changes possible, even so far as making Incursions dangerous… which is usually a easy farm mechanic for a starter.
Psssst… nobody needs to know!
Yeah, and I never said that that wouldn’t be the case.
I’m solely talking about the mechanical aspects here, not presentation towards the player.
Because let’s be clear, if GGG would unify their crafting UI into a single window with proper tooltips and explanations like ‘Respects meta crafts’ or ‘Ignores meta crafts’ listed in there it would already become vastly vastly easier and be on par in complexity with LE’s system.
Add a ‘craft until’ button on top of that and the RSI is taken care of as well as the sheer time investment.
Hence why I’m solely speaking about the actual implemented possibilities. LE lacks em, which is the downside. PoE has em… but convoluted. Still as always: Function over form
I am sorry but you are telling me you can do 250c in this build and not die constantly? 1.6k health and no defences to speak of but crit avoidance and DR while moving? No endurance threshold and Effective HP 2.6k Vs One Shot? Can you even kill Aberroth in this? I think not. I faced the same issue, what this needs is a Null Portent and two def rings either Ocereon’s or Red Rings, which will take you the rest of your life to accomplish. Why bother at all?
My Current VK build This literally took me two farming sessions including the 2 LP3s that I rerolled three times already. It is THAT easy compared to what you are trying to do with marksman, just the Frostbite Shackles (Gloves) or mourningfrost/Snowdrift (boots) that your build could use will take ages at LP3 hence, imbalanced. Compare the Shadow Beacon at 1 in 166 for LP3 as a temporary choice until you get the Apathy Maw(Axe) at LP3, easily takes the build to 800c. Can you do that with Marksman?, nope. No chest other than Null Portent will allow you to push to higher corruption so you are simply wasting your time. Not to mention the Uber clear speed of VK compared to marksman.
Heartseeker is - as mentioned - besides Erasing Strike the only reliable way to kill Uberroth.
Not Aberroth… the version beyond him actually.
The build does badly in content which is frantic, hence echos… but for pure damage it is currently the strongest existing build in the game when properly built.
I am sorry Kulze but are you saying that Erasculio can kill Uber Abby with 1.6k health are you trolling me? One thing touches him from all the shite that guy throws and he is dust in a flak jacket!
His version likely not.
But yes, the build is able to kill Uberroth because of the massive damage you do. Unlike other builds which have a long fight the Heartseeker build kills Uberroth in sub 1 minute, which allows you to not have to deal with many mechanics you need to avoid.
Yeah sure it can, any build can, you only need, oh I dunno a LP2 Shattered Worlds, LP2 Immortal Vise, LP2 Nihilis, 2x LP2 Red Rings hence every single Uberdrop there is.
I can make a dancing monkey build work with items like that, even the pathetic sad Marksman.
You are simply missing my point here, as a VK you need 1/1000th the time investment to become successful. I do not understand, assuming you have played most if not all classes, why you keep defending heartseeker marksman?
I have killed Normal Abby 30 times by now and I have not seen a single LP2 Null drop not even after Turtling the LP1s and sticking them up nemesis butts, I am talking ~50 Nulls by now. Take a look at this guy’s Frostseeker build: FrostSeekerPlannerFrostseekerYTVideo
Yes THAT can kill Uberroth after several tries as he clearly says at 3.5k health and a lot of blood, sweat and tears to get the Immortal Vise he has and the two Red rings even at LP1.
I have tried all classes, you can never convince me that anything can achieve what Sentinel can with so much little effort and easy drops. The classes are simply imbalanced from the get go.
Nah, there’s plenty of builds that have zero chance of killing Uby.
This is true though. But it’s because VK and Pally were the last ones to get a rework. So they’re overtuned right now. But the previous ones to get a rework are also still good.
They’re bringing the weaker classes up (necro and lich will come next season) and slowly try to bring the overtuned ones a bit more down to stay inline with the rest.
I expect next season Necro and Lich will be really strong, Pally and VK will still be strong but not as strong as now, and so on until they finish the mastery reworks and implement the rest of the missing skills.
After that we’ll get new masteries (which will likely also be OP when introduced and then slowly brought down).
Balance is a very hard thing to accomplish. It took PoE years to achieve it and even now you still have some skills which are mostly forgotten due to underperforming a lot in comparison to the stronger ones.
I expect it will take them at least 2 years to get balance tightened enough to a point where builds don’t feel so vastly different in what they can achieve.
Null Portent has a 1 in 166 chance to roll 2LP. So you still have a long ways to go to find one, unless you get very lucky. It’s supposed to be extremely rare because it’s also very strong.
They are, but less so now than at launch. It’s an ongoing process that takes time.
Very true friend, and you know what? Why bother with VK? it is easier to get Titan Heart at LP3 with CoF since you get showered with drops I have gotten 5 of them already at high corruption. And what class can make best use out of it? Sentinel.
This guide is one from maxroll based on Heartseeker which is Uberroth viable. But it takes a lot longer then the absolute top Heartseeker builds, it is very strong though in terms of defenses.
Double red-ring which is the hardest to achieve definitely, as would be the ravenous void.
Helmet can be 2 LP as well, which is viable, bow should be 3 LP since that’s really easy to get with Dragonsong, same for Toraka’s Teeth and Mourningfrost in 2 LP.
Yes, but Heartseeker comes close. As said, those 2 are the strongest for the fight.
Everything else can’t come close, some core builds have no chance at the fight, ever.
Because I know something you seemingly don’t, which is that Heartseeker Marksman is ridiculously powerful for the fight. Not for farming… but for that specific fight.
But do they really have to rework the class in a way that it becomes utterly and entirely broken without even having to think a second about it? That’s not good balancing or reworking at all.
As for the 2 years… with their methodology? Not even close, never given the sheer amount of issues regularly introduced along the line while others aren’t even addressed yet.
haha, nice one! You are indeed trolling me, right? This is easy? Brother just his idols which are crucial for his build in those combinations (Health % and Elemental Res) are gonna take 100hrs of farming/enchanting, T7 enchantments? You know how many tombs these are? and ravenous void and 2x Red Rings?, seriously? The damage and attack speed do look very good, but it is not easy. I don’t care how many times Dragonsong and daggers proc, you will get Carpal tunnel syndrome by the end of the fight! My friend, this is not easy to do. Let alone the skill required to play this glass cannon build without dying once with those defences at 3.5k health without leeching from crits, one misstep and you are done for. I am not that young or good enough to even play this build, maybe you are but I am certainly not. Thanks but no thanks.
And what about Monos this is boss focused only I can’t see this clearing high corrupt fast enough without melting.
You realize that this build is solely a best-case scenario? You can easily do it with 70% of what that guide showcases. Watch the video related to the build and you can see just how powerful it is. Some damage loss won’t be a bother, which means you can simply drop the dex on the rings.
Getting a single one is all you need with imprints still, also you can get the initial ring through accrued farming of Ascencion runes, which are easy to get.
The only thing which is an issue is Ravenous Void with 1 LP, but also imprintable since it’s not solely a boss-drop but a general one, which alleviates this issue substantially. With the usage of Nemesis you can use any 0 LP ones for potentially getting 1 LP or rolling flat health, which suffices already.
If you got issues then go along and downgrade gradually towards the starter version of it. As for the idols? Why do you even think those measly few percents added through the enchants would make any actual substantial difference?
As for the ‘glass cannon’ aspect.
Ravenous void provides 10% DR against the most powerful attack from Uberroth.
It also provides 1,5% DR against physical attacks should a melee hit do some damage to you, not needed but not bad either.
Null Portent provides 20% DR
Both red rings together provide 20% DR
The sheer attack speed causes massive sustain since you gain 7,5 health per hit commonly (10 health with 75% chance).
You gain 3 dusk shroud per second, which is a 15% glance chance, which is lasting 4 seconds. So non-optimal we can say you get 45% chance for a 35% DR. Also you got a base 31% chance for glancing blows too, hence minimum 76% unless you screw up, if you optimize it you got 91% and with the enchants (those are the primary ones to seek out) you get 99% optimally.
You regen 40 health per hit which is massive with the attack speed you have.
You got a 20% DR while moving as well.
So lets combine it:
Non-move: 50% DR base + 35% DR hit damage = 85% less damage taken.
Move: Basically immune during that time.
Regen is 50 health per hit.
Attack speed is high enough to provide you with 10-15 hits per second easily, which is a regen of 500-750 health per second.
That’s a glass cannon? It’s tankier then 90% of builds ever can possibly be, outside of Sentinel.
And I already mentioned it’s a boss-build and not a clear-build. Basically the only viable one in LE currently. It’s an exception, but we talked about Uberroth and not the shifted goalposts of all content instead… which is excels in as well given the sheer attack speed and DR it has.
OK , I really AM new at this so forgive my ignorance I might be very wrong, not having spent that much time with Marksman, how exactly is that accomplished? I mean the 10-15 hits per sec that return 750 health per sec. Is that the recurve? that Maxroll calculator thingy is confusing me I prefer the LE tools one, I can’t find anywhere the recurve chance. Can you explain this plz that guide is not easy to follow. I am a linguistics Major and a teacher, my math sucks, lol.
Also how is that accomplished? In the calculator it says 35% DR with the Rings and the Null where does the 50% DR non-move come from? After you go bellow the threshold with void barrier, meaning less than 800 health? I am very confused.
Sentinel is just really good at giving players a “Defense floor” that makes it so you dont have to think.
But there is a plethora of other builds that are actually tankier and have more damage. Sentinel is just how you get there with the least thought/effort. other then some outliers like ES/Judgement, not every sentinel build is wiping up uberabby.
Sentinel gets alot of flak from people who have not played the game long, but once you get into actually looking at well invested builds and players who put 500+ hours into a build, sentinel isnt the go to imo.
they are great cycle starters, and great casual characters. But once ES and judgement get toned down, sentinel will fade back to being the basic sword and board guy.
It’s the recurve combined with the attack speed, yes. Makes for a lot of hits.
Ok, the recurve is the following:
Recover starts at 100% That means every shot hits at least twice. Initial hit + 1 recurve.
It’s a special mechanic which after every recurve gets a 80% chance of the last recurve. That means it hits… then the follow-up is guaranteed with 100%… that follow up with 80%… that follow-up with 67% and so on until it fails once.
In that guide the node is taken that it can never go below 66%, so you’ll see many many recurves, which each count as an individual hit.
20% Red Rings
20% Null portent overcap
10% Ravenous void against void damage.
1,6% Ravenous void against phys damage
35% Glancing blows.
20% moving.
Some are situational, but especially with Heartseeker you’ll be moving a lot. Void is also the most dangerous damage type from Uberroth so you’ll defend against that better then other things.
The glancing blows don’t work for DoT but against hits, which a substantial amount of Uberroth’s dangerous attacks are.
