I am basically new player, but played a bit few years ago. Among my characters, I found blademaster at the beginning at monolith, so I skipped campaign, can’t say anything about it. Farming monoliths until empowered feels too long. I am fine with doing it once, but I would never start seasonal character to go through campaign and early monoliths again, because it is not challenging at all. If EGH want players to do cycle characters, it has to be changed. After I hit empowered monolith, around level 80, game finally became challenging, it was very sudden change, from very easy to quite hard in one step. I think difficulty curve probably should be smoothed. Then I played a bit in empowered monolith, and then decided to quit LE.
Sadly, combat was not interesting enough, it just feels like a very low quality combat, even many indie games feels way better (for example, “Reality Break” - ARPG made by 1 person, with simple yet more interesting combat than in LE). I think it will never change, because most ARPG players just want to kill time mindlessly clicking, they just aren’t up for anything intelligent, so this genre is just not for me I guess. But for those players, LE is probably a very good game, I like its crafting mechanic a lot, it feels interesting. Maybe if character would play automatically and I would only craft items for him, I would play a bit longer But without any real gameplay, it just doesn’t work for me, it feels like an offence to human’s intelligence to offer such gameplay.
I’ll let you in on a secret. Every game can be boiled down to just doing X.
Regarding “challenging gameplay,” keep in mind that this is subjective and everyone defines it differently. The same goes for “real gameplay,” “fun,” and “…they just aren’t up for anything intelligent…”. Although I would add here that it takes a certain level of understanding to create a character that can handle the content.
Running a few monoliths and then saying “that sucks” isn’t smart either, because the game isn’t just about that. You don’t just eat the butter off your bread and then say “that was disgusting” or just randomly watch 15 minutes of a movie and then say it sucks.
It seems you’re also having a hard time understanding the point of the genre. It’s about the grind. It’s about finding good loot and equipping your character with it, so you can then potentially do the difficult content, or simply min-max.
The corrupted monoliths, which are part of the more difficult content, are for characters who have the appropriate gear. If you don’t prepare yourself accordingly, and that’s one of the things the regular monoliths are for, then that’s your fault.
You obviously think your opinion is very important, even though you yourself say that the genre probably isn’t for you and you simply haven’t even played the game properly. So what’s the point of this forum post?
My point about difficulty curve is that, while it’s fine for me, some people may find frustrating such sudden increase in the difficulty.
Giving feedback, maybe checking out what other players are thinking about LE combat, maybe there are some ways to make it interesting. You don’t enjoy combat either, if I understood you correctly.
That sounds more like it was too big a change in difficulty for you. Players familiar with the genre will likely look to see where they can improve their character at this point, rather than simply stop playing or complaining. Newbies often tend to stick to a guide anyway and even if the newbie is overwhelmed by the difficulty because they played without a guide, they often still understand that it’s about gear and the skills they use.
Have you ever considered that the game doesn’t have to change for you, but that it might just not be your game? The developers have their ideas and concepts about what combat should be like. Either the player likes the developers’ implementation, or they look for a game that’s more their style.
That was a misunderstanding. I like the combat the way it is. I have a lot of fun running through the maps, killing everything with quick bow and arrow attacks, or destroying everything as a Warlock with Chthonic Fissure and Chaos Bolts. Raining lightning with the Paladin, or playing as a super tanky Mage.
The part “Then I played a bit in empowered monolith, and then decided to quit LE” was unrelated to the difficulty curve, I just described my overall experience. I wanted to get to the fun part, when game finally become challenging, and check maybe combat somehow will feel better then, but it’s basically the same, just with repeating combos more times since enemies die slower. And if I will make character stronger, they will just die faster, nothing else will change.
I already said that I quit playing it, so obviously it’s not my game.
Misunderstanding is that we mean different things when we are saying “combat”. You didn’t mention anything about interacting with enemies or interesting combat mechanics, only about grinding gear until you kill and destroy everything. So probably all your fun is mostly about grinding loot, watching how your character blasting everything and thinking “omg, how strong I am”. This is what I called not very intelligent part of the game
What exactly is your experience? Aside from monoliths.
Maybe you haven’t played that many video games in general, but in the RPG genre, a better character almost always means that the enemy(s) die quicker. That’s part of the “power fantasy.”
Your definition of “fun” is still different from my definition of “fun.” What you consider “challenging” isn’t necessarily challenging for me. Such generalizations never help. I don’t understand why we all tend to be unclear about expressing ourselves.
Is your definition of “fun” tied to your definition of “challenging”?
Usually people don’t announce their “farewell” and just look for another game instead.
Well, I just thought we’d stick with the vague wording. Your comments didn’t hint at the topic of “mechanics,” and “combat” is a very broad term.
I find the boss mechanics very enjoyable. Good for newbies and relaxing for reclears when you want to get the boss’s loot.
If I want a game with specific mob and boss mechanics, then I definitely won’t play an ARPG. That would also be a bit counterproductive in a game where the goal is to kill lots of mobs and bosses for loot.
That’s the “power fantasy” that the ARPG genre offers.
Well, actually you said:
That certainly sounded a bit rude. There are plenty of people who like shooters, car racing, Dota, and games like Stardew Valley, none of which are my cup of tea, but I would never say something like “they just aren’t up for anything intelligent.”
The harbinger that you have to kill serves as an entry-point check to empowered monos. When you can kill him, you can usually handle at least 100c properly. If you find you can’t, you can still go back to the level 90 monos and increase their corruption.
It seems that the difficulty curve spikes because most people just jump from one to the other. But you can make normal monos more challenging by raising corruption and have a smoother curve.
It’s just generally not needed. 100c isn’t hard for most builds. So if you feel the jump, either go back to farm, or you need to fix your build a bit.
Probably around level 90 wouldn’t be hard for my build either, but at 80, while it was fine for me, I am absolutely sure most ARPG players would call it “slog and tedious”. I still killed harbinger easily because you can just dodge all her attacks, don’t need any defense in order to beat her. But actually, players can just farm non-empowered monoliths indeed, until they strong enough, so maybe EHG don’t need to change it.
My problem there was just that I released, that there is nothing beside that in the LE mapping experience, I will just repeat same combos hundreds and thousands of time, with only the minimal responding to what enemies are doing. And even if I farm enough corruption, it will be just repeating those combos more times without other changes in the gameplay, without making it deeper somehow.
You have no idea how different it is
I like to express my opinions about things. One of things I specifically wanted to mention is that part about what kind of fun must ARPG players have, I really find spending hours to mindlessly clicking just to get satisfaction that your character became strong is very stupid. You could develop yourself instead, it’s much more interesting in the long run. Developing character in the game is fun too, but if there is nothing beside that, no real gameplay — then it’s just stupid. In other genres you mentioned, you can at least strength your reaction, tactical thinking of some other skills (or get emotional pleasure in Stardew Valley. Not just stupid kind of satisfaction). Ofc you can and will disagree with me, but that’s my opinion about “fun” for ARPG players.
If developing yourself is so much better, why play video games at all?
Also, acting like the satisfaction of making a good build is somehow lesser than building a farm in Stardew Valley is so arrogant and dismissive, it’s hard to believe you’re not trolling.
I get your Point. Most ARPG’s are the mindless grind. That’s why i play other games besides ARPG’s I love Fighting games. It gives me what this genre can’t. But there will always be a game in the ARPG genre that will take many risks to try something new. Problem is peeople are used to what the standard type of ARPG is. Also you need to keep in mind, that if fewer people buy a game the chance that you will recoup the money and break even as a publisher is rather unlikely. It makes things even more complicated and even allowing tinkering that goes way off track of a genre in the first place puts you as a publisher in a risky spot. This is the reason why genre stagnation exists and when you play a certain genre for too long you get burned out. Also you need to consider this. An ARPG is an ARPG because that is what they are. If you want to make a ARPG a Fighting game… why not just make a fighting game instead. Mixing genres is a very complicated thing and most of the time people will stay away from it because it divulges too much from the core concept of what defines it. But yeah… Just play games that suit your needs when you need something.
Right now you could call it class or build check because some classes don’t bother at all with the harbinger. Just run it down and wake in emp Monos like from a bad dream called campaign and normal monos ^^.
You disguise it as “opinion” or ‘feedback’, but telling people that the genre they play is “stupid and mindless” and that it should have this or that to make it “fun”, and that people who play a game like LE “just aren’t up for anything intelligent” is a cheap attempt to distract from your lack of serious argument.
Because you didn’t get what you wanted and act like you’re morally superior, you think you’re in a position where you can impose your own ideas on other people. Therefore, it’s not about LE or the genre, it’s about how your way of spending time in video games is the “real deal” and our way is downright “inferior”.
Feedback includes things like explicit examples, objectivity, realism and suggested solutions. I couldn’t find anything like that in any of your texts.
But without any real gameplay, it just doesn’t work for me, it feels like an offence to human’s intelligence to offer such gameplay.