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My feedback after 150 hours

Graphics are improved it looks better then D3, but graphics are nowhere near Lost ark or D2 resurected. Especially lightning and character models and animations.

Music is good I like it.

Sounds are mediocre or bad. Sound of explosions of devouring orbs which are on autocast made me mute combat sounds. Static orb sound is also pretty bad and I keep combat sound muted. Playing game muted breaking immersion which is shame.

End game gets old fast.
Echoes are mindless grind. I have 2 chars lvl 85 and 71 and 65 and I feel I done too many echoes already. The exp in echoes is terrible, I was lvl 75 when I was running lvl 85 already, which means the lower lvl echoes giving abysmal exp. Why is there even death penalty like who like it? Remove death penalty and give us normal respawns. I have to make every char tanky which is no fun at all.

Dungeons are just chore, too much trash mobs and too hard bosses with one shot mechanics, the harder it is then less players will play it, we live in casual world now, ppl want to play relaxing and fun game not some hardcore stressful content when you die and its over. Only game which has one shot mechanics is Lost ark and then you can repeat boss fights whole days without any restrictions. So why Last epoch wants to be so hardcore I can assure you it wont bring more players at all.
Suggestion remove keys and let us run the bosses freely, cut the annoying trash mobs at half. Remove death penalty and give us respawns. Most popular competition are D2 and D3 and there are not restrictions and penalty like this, they also have like 100x more players then last epoch so think about that. Le is played by 2k ppl max which is really low.

Arena is ok but the reward is abysmal for the effort, the death penalty can stay, but remove the need for key, lets players play what they want freely. Why should I have to run echoes whole day to get chance to play dungeons or arena? I will get only burnout soon.
The arena bosses are too hard in comparison with act bosses or echo bosses I mean like much harder. I didnt even try the 180% damage and health modifier, its probably only for cheaters and most op builds.
Suggestion give arena better rewards and nerf the bosses, they hit like truck, all my chars have to run circles like chicken for few minutes and I have two tanky sentinel builds. Not fun at all.

This game feels like D3 with more depth but has so many annoyence in the way.
Overall game is on good path, have unique features and good gameplay, combat feels good. But could be much much better. The major competition like D2, D3 and Lost ark are more fun relaxing. If you want to make some super niche hardcore game then expect low player numbers becouse only like 10% players are hardcore try hards and rest of the players wont bother.

Itememization is just too random, there is no excitment of finding anything, there is no hope fo rfinding anything good like ever. You drop 5 exalted amulets as echo rewards? Everything will be trash. You see unique drop on the ground? 99.9 % it will be low level trash uselless crap. There are just too many afixes to even have chance to find something. And the uniques and set are so bad in general in majority cases they have zero interesting stats.

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Thanks for the input - its always good to get feedback - even if its on the negative side…

Your comments about graphics, sound animations etc have all been discussed by the devs in the most recent Dev Blog updates - the short of it is that all of these things are being updated right now, even down to combat feel & death animations and other VFX… You may like to read up on those - they are pretty exciting for those of us that have been around for longer than 150h…

End game - well, arpgs are essentially mindless grinds but its important to understand that endgame content isnt complete - there are much more things coming - they have just been superseeded by the effort to get MP done… This includes more specific end-game content (non-Mono) as well as more dungeons etc…

XP … I suppose if you wanted to speed level then XP is pretty crap, but considering that builds are mostly complete by level 90 and the last 10 levels are just cream on top, I havent ever had an issue with XP… There is a level limit of 5 levels above and below for XP values so if you are running for pure XP then you need to stay in those bands… There are also ways of farming XP - Emperor of Corpses is the boss that gives the most XP right now and there are echo nodes that provide XP boosts…

Dungeons… Regardin difficulty - well, there are tiered levels of the dungeons specifically for this… its very likely your lvl85 is likely gonna have a challenge in T4 dungeons - thats by design as this is meant to be hard end-game content… T1 to T3 is just as lucrative and possible to do with lower level chars or even casual players…

Keys for dungeons is a hot topic that gets discussed often - there are lots of threads about this if you want to get some insight into that as well as ideas everyone has had since dungeons were introduced…

Death Penalty… What death penalty? If you die you just lose the rewards that you could have received but there isnt any specific penalty?

Dying in dungeons and having to start again is something that has been discussed - especially at lower tiers or new players attempting them… No idea if the devs are planning any changes at that level.

One shot mechanics are part of LE design philosophy and have been since day one afaik… Most bosses mechanics need to be learned - e.g. at lower dungeon tiers… Virtually every boss in the game has something that one shots that you need to learn to deal with… This is just how the game works… not much more that can be said about this.

In contrast to your feedback, I think Arena sucks and is a pointless area of the game… but some people like running it - personally I have no idea why. One important thing regarding your comments is that Arena is entirely different to normal play - even end-game… There is a whole subsection of builds designed specifically for Arena play and pushing the Ladder (which is corrupt right now due to less than honourable players). i.e. playing Arena with a normal non-Arena build is asking for trouble…

Comparison to D3 with more depth… Agreed… Only time will tell how things progress…

Itemisation… The feedback is obviously how you have found the game and is valuable for the devs to get an understanding how new players are thinking/assuming things work… However, imho, it doesnt seem like you have grasped the approach to loot grindings, items & crafting yet… For early and mid game, drops have meaning and can usually be used as upgrades immediately… beyond that, a more planned approach is needed… your focus changes from finding drops to finding crafting items and building on that with the comprehensive crafting system… If you are not doing that, then your feedback on itemisation is to be expected… Too many affixes - now this one I cannot agree with at all / nor find common ground for… I dont want to play Torchlight, I actually want MORE affixes and more variety in this regard…

Unique drops… well 99.9% I assume is exagerated, but its all RNG… and yes, you may find low level trash - I dont even pick up most u.niques anymore… but you are missing out on the entire concept of Legendary items…

Its a shame that your feedback is generally negative, and you sound pretty frustrated which is never how anyone should feel after playing a game for 150hs…

Perhaps the things coming could help…

I think this kind feedback may be just as valuable as the feedback of a veteran ARPG player, if not a bit more. After all the bulk of a popular game will be more casual players that mostly played Diablo and that’s it.

By casual, I’m not being derogatory / condescending in any way, this is not good or bad, but that’s the sales reality. When he talks of D2, D3, and Lost Ark as if they were in the same ballpark than Last Epoch, but Grim Dawn and Path of Exile aren’t even mentioned, you know what type of player is leaving feedback.

To me, two main takeaways from this feedback:

  • For a more casual player you will be judged by top games with similar camera view. They will not rationalize Lost Ark is a MMO but with the click and go movement and isometric camera, they will not understand this is an indie company, that doesn’t have the resources, marketing and reputation Blizzard has.

  • Also sounds and visuals are very important in modern games, gameplay and itemization is there, but graphics/sounds alone can kick out so many casual gamers.

Desper, many thanks for the feedback.

Never said the feedback wasn’t valid or not valuable.

What I took from this:

  • there is a lot of frustration in the players feedback and this seems to be attributed to a lot of different things - expectations and assumptions and comparison to past experiences. This is likely to be very hard to deal with completely but frustration isn’t something the game should be making someone feel.

  • a lack of understanding the deeper mechanics of the game. Especially based on arpg experience and 150h.

While some of this frustration is to be expected in a beta game that’s incomplete, a lot of this points to a lack of guidance and information at appropriate times in the game content…

If this could be addressed then perhaps it would improve the experience for new or casual players.

Edit: especially those that don’t have the time or inclination to read guides and ask on discord or here for explanations.

Sorry if I made to sound that way.

We need to understand we probably came from very different gaming backgrounds, and you entered into discussion/correction on many details, I think is a bit overboard.

Sure. You can feel I came on too strong that’s entirely up to you. I wanted to clarify some of the feedback as I feel that a lot of it would have been different if the OP had more info.

Other than throwing in my own counters here or there like “not wanting Torchlight” I did try to respond in a manner that isn’t personal or a rejection of the value of the feedback posted.

Well I am not saying I am casual my self, I mean that the game needs to be more casual friendly for more large audience, more players means more money for devs which means more content for us all in the future.

I played Lost ark 1600 hours, Grim dawn 600 hours, D2 20 years, D3 every season. I mostly play D2 mod Median XL which you probably never heard of it which is pretty hardcore and is played by 500 players only which is also shame.

None of the games I played was so restrictive as Last Epoch, TLDR what I need would be remove the keys for dungeons and arena and give me respawns in dungeons and echoes, becouse who wants to play dungeons in hardcore mode? Is it fun to die to random rock falling from the sky becouse you are just unlucky? None of the game I ever played forced me to grind repetive ehoes to farm keys only to die to some unfair mechanic which I cant even learn properly becouse I have no key to make another try. And If I want to make another try I have to go through hordes of trash mobs again? Why do you think Mephisto runs are so popular in D2? D2 is still king of all rpgs by miles.

Itemization could be improved, there are too many useless uniques, imagine you would play D3 end game and 90% of uniques would be lvl 10 or similar crap, everyone would uninstall after few hours and Last epoch is like this all the time. Arpg is about item hunt and LE is really lacking in this aspect. Sure you can craft and reroll something so you are not running naked but its not enough.

I dont think the game is bad, imho is pretty good, I would not play game for 150 hours if I would not enjoy it. That 150 hours was in one week. But could be much better and if we ever want to see shine needs to be more casual friendly.#

The game really need more polish, few examples:
The echo quests giving 1000 gold and 1000 exp rewards even the lvl 90 echoes which just feels insulting, you are getting 3x 16 000 xp tomes for one easy echo and then you get 1000 xp for killing echo boss, its just bad joke.

From corrupted echo bosses I droped only one same unique ring all them time in every lvl echo same ring from 70 lvl as from 90 lvl I stoped counted them but it was like 15+ same void leach rings. That also wont improve my anything in item hunt at all.

Ok…

Your feedback is an expression of how you feel after playing the game and it contains a lot of opinion which you are 100% entitled to have about various aspects of the game and they are perfectly valid from your perspective and no-one can argue that.

This feedback is valuable in its own way and cannot be disputed because its how you feel.

What I get from your posts however, is less actual feedback and more opinion that you dont like the way in which the game does things, how the devs intended it to be played and you dont seem interested in learning/considering the games own take on various aspects of an arpg, nor do you seem willing to accept the devs design/philosophy/choices in the game.

I also get the impression that you want the game to work in a certain way based on your opinion with a total disregard of all else involved, especially what the devs want to do with their game.

Quite honestly if I felt about a game enough to express my dislike in the way you have, I would uninstall it and never touch it again.

Again… each to their own opinions, and its up to the devs to decide if yours have any merit for consideration in their game.

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Well i dont read forums much so I dont know what most loyal players think about LE but here is one of the video feedback from some guy also the comments generally agree with him. TLDR looks like no one like dungeons which should be best end game selling point. I seen plenty of videos like this where ppl critize dungeons. The player numbers shows everything and ppl who allready quit usually dont post feedback why they quit, I write feedback only for game which I care.

Desper934 sorry I misjudged you as a more casual ARPG player, seems you are just as hardcore as most of us here, but you just taken a more casual approach.

I have to disagree with Lost Ark. I have many hours there and actually left it because of the stupid itemization, and the strict daily/weekly/timed content.

I also know about Median XL, didn’t played personally, but I usually stay informed on many ARPG news.

This is a minuscule thing that also annoys me, how easy would be to add a simple formula with area level, corruption, and number of echo mods active to deliver an appropriate quantity?

The “most loyal” LE players will probably agree that 085 was one of the weaker patches, but they also recongize why.

Every single patch from 0.7.9 onwards got bigger and better and more polished. (0.7.10, 0.8.0, 0.8.1, 0.8.2, 0.8.3 + 0.8.4).

It was inevitable that there will be some patch will not continue that trend at some point.
Much of the dev team already was working on MP even during all of these amazing patches, but the focus shifted more and more towards more of EHG completely focusing on MP.

LE still is not even close to being finished or released and already looking at some statistic for specific patches is completely irrelevant in my opinion.

The game has a good enough foundation and just needs time.

It was very predictable that something like that will happen.

All we can hope is, that EHG will continue bringing us patches like the before mentioned ones, potentially even bigger ones.

I hope for multiplayer patch to be good and with working auction house for trading, I am not fan of any forum trades like D2jsp. Auction would be perfect to be able to save and work hard to buy some bis items which you would need 500 hours of grind to drop if lucky.

The question is, do you like to get these items, for the sake of getting them or do you expect content to be added, where we need those perfect items?

Well I have two sorcerers they both desperetly needs the lvl 80 unique ward relic, they are too squishy without it, almost unplayable they can even die in easy echoes where my Vk autobomber run it blindly without even using potion like never. So I would buy the relics in instant to be able to play the sorcs in harder content.

I am generally understanding your concern regarding build enabling uniques.

I am assuming you are talking about Twisted Heart of Uhkeiros.
If that is the case, that is an item you are planning around using you should invest into other defensive layers before you get it.
Also the item is fairly easy to farm yourself, you can even farm it in normal.

I understand, if some build enabling items are very hard to get or you only get them in empowered, but generally speaking LE doesn’t really need a trading system, where you can buy uniques IMO.

Trading rares and exalted items is enough IMO

Yup, the shift in development resources to multiplayer. Once that’s hit I have no doubt that we’ll get a lot of awesome #### in the subsequent patches.

MP will help with that since you can group up with other players to help make up for the deficiencies of your build (squishiness in this case). Or you could use your VK to farm it.

Which is one of the downsides of trade.

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Trade is core of every game, you sell stuff and you buy what you need, its not like you will be rich on fresh first charachter to be able to buy everything you will have to work hard. Curent version is old everyone has every item and there are also plenty of cheaters but it wont be case in multiplayer patch everyone will start fresh.

There are games like D3 where you dont need trade but there you loot 10 legendary items every 2 minutes which is not case for LE so LE needs good trading system.