Ludicrous! Ridiculous! Preposterous! Hogwash!
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Once again, people feel like hunting items in an “item hunting video game” is “too slow” and want to make it “faster.” Yet every time I bring up that trading short-cuts the entire point of an ARPG, people defend it saying it doesn’t make it faster, it just makes it so that you can farm “currency” to trade for the item. Which is obviously incorrect as the above quote clearly uses the words “painfully slow”, making it crystal clear that the poster wants key items faster than the game’s drop rates provide for.
So, rather than asking for trade, just ask for better drop rates?
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That is the problem of most people nowadays, they are used to get everything quickly so they want everything, quick, without working much, without having to demonstrate patience, then they get bored very easily because they don’t feel rewarded for what they finally got after weeks of hard work.
Easy T4 Julra, easy equipment through trading, easy reskill, easy access to end game, it’s just about consuming consuming consuming with no room for frustration or time to get to things.
Many of the posts that I read here are about making things easier, faster, and so on, sometimes the points risen are valid but most of the time they are not.
Maybe some of these people will eventually understand that it is not the result that matters but the way to it.
In the meantime, there are games for casuals, D4 for example.
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Stop reading here. What a joke, the game is absurdly generous with gear and SSF friendly.
Have fun with other games I guess.
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There’s also the opposite side of that argument where you could say that people desire a sense of elite-ness via exclusivity by getting rewards that take months or years to acquire that other people simply don’t have the time or patience to acquire. What someone who feels that way would probably argue is that this is artificial achievement and is really just boring yourself to death to feel like you’ve done something other people haven’t done.
What I would say personally and have said in the past is that as soon as you run out of unique and interesting things to do in a game, that’s when the game is actually over. If all you’re doing is grinding for gear, you’ve probably already reached that point. How long it should take is a little subjective because that depends on how people value their time and how much of it they have, but I would probably say 80 hours to see most of the content in a game on one character is pretty reasonable, considering how much other stuff there is to do out there these days.
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Well I have to disagree here because I have seen many people asking for shortcuts to make the game easier, and faster, but what you are saying about people desiring a sens of elite ness is juste pure asumption because i have never seen this kind of comments on LE forum (though I won’t talk for POE because you might be right and I haven’t played it for quite a long time).
But maybe the truth is just between those 2 extremes and that people playing LE, and that my case as far as I am concerned, just want some challenge so they have a feeling of achievment and pleasure when they finally successfully complete a build or a challenge.
Now talking about rewards that takes months or years to acquire in this game, I am just going to ask you which ones because I played few characters and I almost maxed them all with 150 / 200 hours of gaming.
Plus there are no real interest to spend that much time to max because there are no challenges offered to maxed chars for now, and casuals will have a lot of fun without having to spend 150 hours in one char.
Now you will have to explain me how working hard / playing / training hard to achieve a goal is just boring and have everything fast and quick isn’t ? I am a bit flabbergasted by that asumption.
Once again, there are no ego in my previous post, and I don’t do that to feel like I have done something other people haven’t, I really don’t care what others do, just like I will never follow the “SSSS Tier” builds like casuals follows blindly to feel overpowered, and I have always played solo chars.
For the second part of your post, you just answered to the problematic, if devs give players shortcuts, ways to do faster, easier, then most of the content of the game will be done faster and then you will lose interest.
By making the pace slower, and making certain challenges difficult, then people will have to think and work to overcome those, and gear is the main part of an ARPG to achieve these goals.
You talk about 80 hours to see most of the content of the game before going forward and playing another game, but other people enjoy spending thousands of hours on the same game because they enjoy it, and I think it’s fair that the devs give more credit and content to their core players who are going to stay around for a long time.
And I think it’s not a big thing if some part of the content, maybe 10 or 15 % is locked to players who will spend at least hundreds of hours to keep their interests high and make them continue playing, and if most of the people don’t want to spend more than 80 hours in the game and unlock the 15 % percent, well it’s fine.
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Don’t get me wrong; I don’t think a game where you can play for thousands of hours is inherently bad or that devs shouldn’t make it their goal to make it worth it for some people to do that. There are a handful of games I have over a thousand hours in myself. All I really question is if you’re really doing anything unique or interesting you haven’t done already by that point. What the real goal would be, in my estimation, would be to make it where you haven’t run out of things to do and see yet and that content is continuing to get added as you’re doing that. PoE - Much derided as it may be - is one of the games that is trying to do that to varying success. It should be about what you’re doing and why, not necessarily how long it takes. Games that drag out too little content for too long aren’t respecting or rewarding the player’s time investment.
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80 hours is not arpg game, arpg for grinding. Wanna easy items? nope, go away. The more hardcore the better, grind 800 hours for one upgrade hell yeah
in other words: pay to win kill the fun, even if it’s game currency
Indubitably!
If you see my earlier post, I addressed that attitude a little bit. I think people do have a point about the elitist / artificial achievement aspect of things.
But in general, I’m not sure you’re valuing your time properly, let alone other people’s. Doing the same things over and over again for different rewards is a low quality experience. (That’s why it’s called a “grind,” incidentally.) There’s other fun things we could be doing, why do these again and again essentially the way you would a slot machine? Doesn’t make a lot of sense.
Becouse thats arpg, not mmo. You are not playing football sim and expect something different from it? Same with this game. Arpg based around items, items and how to get them. Easy ways to get items kills the game itself. Of course you can lessen grind needed, but after that u have nothing todo coz thats not mmorpg, u don’t have another time activities here like 10+ type of dungeons with friends or/and 10+ raids todo. Anyway arpg for ppls who love to grind. If u don’t like it to much, that type of games not for u, imho ofc.
We have many types of players with some different reasons to “have fun” in games: someone want to speedrun, another guy want to test all posiblle builds, fastest boss killer, wanna be n1 in arena waves, can’t die here build, some ppls just love to grin itself and more more. So how we make a game depends on auditory, thats why grind have place here and pls don’t try to remove it even in your dreams 
You’re really putting your finger on what I’ve been describing. It sounds like you understand what I’m talking about.
If you haven’t considered that the relief of finding a drop you’ve been grinding for is what you’re mistaking for fun after the fact, it’s kind of interesting. I don’t think anybody actually realizes this until you take the time to point it out to them. It’s a shame too, because MMO’s, mobile apps and battle royale games all operate on that same principle that you’ll eventually get to win or get a thing you want - Sometimes by happenstance, - and then all the time you spent grinding before that will suddenly be justified to you, even if it wasn’t much fun and even if that desired outcome won’t necessarily happen for you again any time soon. Time gating to stretch content doesn’t even have to be a literal time gate. It can just be built into the way you play the game.
They actually also work on a mechanism called a “schedule of reinforcement,” but I’ve already discussed that quite a bit on LE forum in the past. That’s a subject worth reading up on if you haven’t already and you’re bored enough to one weekend. I have a theory that knowing how it works actually increases your ability to override or avoid falling into it. It could actually be healthy to understand.
No, it is not. The player should be able to go through all the content alone. This is one of the most crucial part of arpg. Take it away - this is another genre. “We want add some mmo mechanics, dungeons and raids mega bosses!”. Okay, but, see my second sentence. When solo player can’t complete game activity alone, this game became mmo-something and thats different story. We playing multiplayer here becouse it’s fun, but not neccesary.
I mean if I go to my bank and grab a dozen uniques that I do not need, but I have been collecting for my offline friends, I should be able to just drop them and give them to them (or anyone I chose to give them to for that matter). Anything else is just dumb.
Ah, so you want to be able to RMT your gear. Fair enough ('cause that’s what being able to do that would enable).
Sorry, no RMT (Real Money Trade)/open trade in ARPGs. It makes no sense.
I do not know what RMT means, sorry.
I want to be able to give anything I have to anyone I want. Like every other itemised game I have ever played (except those with “soulbound” mechanics like WoW).
I play a lot more than most of my group, so when they come online I typically have a bank full of items for them. This is the only way they can keep up with me power-wise so we can co-op.
Why? Online games have been a thing for over 30 years. Why should each game be given lenience because of derp but itz onlinez derp
Online play is not a wheel that needs to be constantly reinvented. It, along with launch day queues, should be a thing of the past. But sheep-like consumers will still give it a pass because of … sycophantic reasoning …
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