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Multiplayer Content and Balancing Discussion

Now that it appears we are going to see MP this year, I thought it would be a good time to start discussing the fun details.

What kind of content are you anticipating, or maybe I should ask how do you want (or think) the current content (should) change/evolve to incorporate MP? Will it simply be something like D2’s old “/players X” command, or something deeper? Will there be added content that is more MP-centric and what might that look like?

I think what got me thinking about this in particular was:

  • I’ve been trying to create “support” type builds (I started another thread a while back) and I thought I had a really good new Druid build with spammable heals/buffs that retained good solo capability. I played him from scratch to around 73 this patch, and had been really happy with the support potential.

  • I then got distracted when I heard about the “VK Autobomber” build. I converted one of my old VKs and… holy crap. This build just destroys everything in sight as I’m running around, super fast, with very little downside.

So that got me wondering… if the game content has been built and balanced around these types of super builds, how is MP going to fit in? One of the things I liked about my support build was being able to spam heals on someone - but it seems like many, if not all, builds flat out don’t need anyone to heal them, and rarely even need much “buffing” either. Basically with builds like this, it’s hard to imagine how MP is going to be useful or fun. Will a set increase in mob XP and/or damage be enough? It’s going to be really interesting to see how this plays out.

They aren’t going to balance MP around the OP builds, they’ll, hopefully, tweak the OP builds to bring them into line (ish) with the rest of the pack & do the same for the lower performing builds.

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I am pretty sure EHG said there won’t be MP content. Just … content. Which you solo. And oh, also, you can group up for that content if you wish.

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@Zaodon Now you got me hunting for that information. While I’d honestly prefer no “raid” bosses I think that scaling content (and loot) is a must for MP QOL. Additionally, I hope that @Llama8 Is incorrect because gear (and maybe content) that focuses around the group-oriented experience like +x for each group member or increased X only when grouped would only serve to enhance the game’s playability. I really hope MP feels like it is part of the game and not added in for more sales.

If they make the game have a large multiplayer focus as in solo is “not the core experience” then I think generally sales will go down.

MP is important, we all want to play with our friends. if the game is made into an MMO then it will most likely bomb, because most arpg players dont want to be forced into groups for the most efficient play.

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They have always said that they won’t/don’t want to gate content behind multiplayer/grouping.

Good luck with that. Ask @Heavy how it’s going…

I think i can agree with the statement that Last Epoch has stated that solo is the core experience, but; Llama8 was saying that they won’t “balance MP around OP builds” and rather just balance builds, and Zaodon said that it was suggested that there won’t be any MP content. That’s extended well beyond the assumption of large multiplayer focus (no balancing or MP content). That’s no focus at all.

Yeah I said that in my reply. I’m not into “raid” bosses. All content should be able to be soloed imo. My issue is if they don’t balance it at all or try to make it an added flavor, then why include it all?
Edit: I think what I’m trying to say is that if they don’t put any focus on making multiplayer a good (and unique) experience instead of just solo play+1, then as the consumer, why should I play this game over the large swath of arpgs that do integrate MP synergies, builds, and balancing. Protecting the solo experience in a game that has always (to my knowledge) projected the MP feature sounds like a missed opp.

If the OP builds could be brought into line without breaking non-abusive configurations I’d imagine Eleventh Hour would have done so already, regardless of multiplayer or not.

I am very curious to know what arpg are those? because “large swath”? woah
Are you talking abt 4 chars zooming the whole map kind of synergis? Or 4 zdps synergies? Or can you be more concrete what deep smart synergies other arpg has? Really curious

Unfortunately those players who suffers from hopeless mmorpg PTSD cant differentiate the genre they are playing.

Well, I assume that enemies will scale depending on the number of players. That’s how it works with D3 at least.

Also, there will be matchmaking.

Personally, I don’t think that this forum is the proper place to be discussing LE competitors, but with a little help from your preferred search engine - you could definitely find many ARPGs that don’t just support MP; rather they integrate it with its own flavors, builds, built-in systems, and even content that flows better with more players. Either way, the question kinda takes us off track as it misses the forest for the trees. Simply saying you don’t believe there are good integrations of MP elsewhere doesn’t mean that we can’t consider good integrations of MP here.
Edit: I’d like to add that the OP @rittchard was trying to spark considerations for things that they’d like, and I gave some examples above of things that I would like as well.

There’s a FAQ regarding Multiplayer.

I quoted just the part the last posts revolve around, but theres much more info in it.

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Only Diablo 2-3 has done it well in the aRPG scene, D3 was exceptional and the best aRPG to play with randoms

MP is either highly co-ordinated affair with guilds/raids/people getting angry or its a 2bit non caring affair where you can jump in mindlessly and play with others and can still make progress and only D3 has done the latter

And then u quote “large swath of other arpg”

Interesting

Oh no worries, you can just share some build synergies?no need to mention competitors name.

4 dps? 4 zoomer? What is it?

It will definitely help development so we can make LE have wonderful and amazing arpg build synergies too.

Please remember that co-op ARPG is a really old genre with the oldest game I can recall being Arcus Odyssey (1991). I’m also not to shy to ignore such related genres as action shooters like Metal Slug 3 (2000) with the original metal slug being the game that made me fall in love with co-op games in the first place. D2-3 is just the current flavor circa 2012, but it doesn’t mean all other games don’t have something worthwhile to contribute. BTW I purposefully chose out of date games in hopes this would help redirect focus back onto LE and not other games.

Looking at the response to a response isn’t usually helpful. I already contributed my ideas for build content that could liven MP in my opinion in my original response to the OP.

Oops its ok if you cant quote those wonderful build synergise.

Its pretty easy to “misunderstand” when you say a large swath of other arpg has all those successful stuff in their mp and you hope LE can have that too.

Seems like comparing but since you said not

Anyways glad clear that up

Why wouldn’t you mention the names of other games that do things well (or not)? If not it’s just opening the discussion up to confusion. The LE forum is exactly the place to discuss what things other games do well (or not) that you would/wouldn’t like to see in LE.

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Don’t worry about it @babylordx. You misunderstood the post you were responding to in the first place and mistook

they don’t put any focus on making multiplayer a good (and unique) experience instead of just solo play+1, then as the consumer, why should I play this game over the large swath of arpgs that do integrate MP synergies, builds, and balancing.

and saw it as:

LE needs to copy and paste concepts from their competitors.

Personally, I like the creativity of the LE team, and I only want to provide a nudge in a direction I like – not a selection of current systems I’d like them to emulate. That doesn’t produce innovation.

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