You don’t even have 20 skill points at level 50, so you have to be higher level to experiment the full possibilities. I don’t really follow build guides, so I kinda have to try out different skill interactions to see if they’re worth it or not. There are target dummies in the game but having to do 3-4 monos to level up a skill each time I want to try something out pretty much renders the dummies obsolete.
I can’t see how making the “Minimum Specialized level” equal to the level you’ve at least once leveled the skill would make the game easier. It’s not hard to relevel a skill, you just mindlessly run through 3-4 monos and you’re done, it’s not hard, it’s annoying. And if you think not having to do this would make the game easier then your definition of difficulty is a bit weird.
Did adding bonus corruption to monos you haven’t run yet make the game easier? No, it made the game better because having to run a mono at 100 corruption for hours just to bump it to 6-800 where your other monos are is not hard, it’s an annoying chore and it’s good that we don’t have to do it. It’s the same story with having to relevel skills.
It’s meant to be annoying enough that you won’t simply be swapping builds for bosses and not annoying enough that you won’t be able to experiment.
Players’ annoyance thresholds vary. But if you want to experiment once in a while, it’s not really annoying, since you won’t be doing that too often, but if you want to keep switching builds for boss cheesing then it becomes more annoying.
I’d say it’s fulfilling its purpose.
You can have a completely different set of gear for killing bosses, you can swap all your gear in an instant. If you put on a piece that gives you +4 to a skill then you get those 4 points immediately without having to level them. Why can you do that then? Why don’t you have to gain those levels as well? Why can you change gear for a boss fight to have better defenses?
Well if you didnt know, the +4 skill items when you put those 4 points in for example. and then remove the item, it removes 4 skill points from you.
it does not remove them from the points you put them in. it removes them from a bunch of random points. it does this so you cant just use those items as temp power. it fucks up your build if you remove them and you have to fix it.
its designed that way to prevent exactly what you are describing.
Just like the respec system is designed that it works good for redoing your build, but badly at just instantly getting a new skill.
I fail to understand why it is bad to slightly change your build for T4 dungeons for example. There are so many systems trying to prevent you from doing that so it must be a really bad thing but I honeslty fail to see why. Would I play less if I could change a skill for T4 dungeons without having to run 3-4 monos so I would be less likely to buy skins or what? How does this artifical bump make the game better? How does it increase replayability?
Because while you might simply slightly change your build for a t4, someone else will fully swap their loadout specifically to cheese each and every encounter.
Unfortunately you do have to balance and account for crazy people. if not, then game balance becomes poor because of degenerate tactics.
I played a game where items could give you large hunks of damage for certain skills, and skills had decentish cooldowns, 15-60 seconds etc. The meta quickly became holding an inventory full of equipment you hot swapped to, to instantly boost your rotations. You had burst gear, dps gear, buffing gear, and the list goes on.
They eventually had to start adding gear swapping cooldowns, penalties for swapping items, what have you. Because if they didnt, the game was being constrained by people abusing an oversight in design.
The devs have simply had enough forethought to understand that they need these systems to prevent degenerative gameplay patterns.
Like yeah it does sorta suck, but that small annoyance saves them droves of balancing and headache down the line. The reason skills can be so modifiable and have such powerful passives is because you have to commit to them to some degree.
The problem isn’t changing your build for running dungeons. You can already have a character that is geared just for running them. The system is to prevent you having one build that just wipes the dungeon content and, before you enter the boss room, you switch to a build that just wipes the dungeon boss. Likewise for monos. You run a build that wipes echoes, then you just switch to a build that wipes bosses.
This way you have to choose between running fast echoes but having more difficulty with bosses, or a build that wipes bosses but is slower in echoes. It’s about balance. Just like in PoE you don’t have mappers that wipe bosses or bossers that wipe maps.
Instant loadouts/swaps like in D3 lead to most players getting bored with the game after a week.
An easier and cleaner solution would be locking your build and gear once you enter a dungeon/mono.
D3 had become a much better game when they added the armory or whatever they called the loadout system. Before that, you had to manually swap gear and skills between T10 speed farming and greater rift pushes. And you didn’t even have to run a couple of rifts to relevel your skills, just changing gear and skill runes around used to be a big enough chore that people had rejoiced when the loadout system was introduced.
Since you can powerlevel in monos, creating different characters for mono and T4 farming will not be hard and won’t take a long time at all. So what’s the point of letting people powerlevel each other but adding a chore to skill tree modifications which is basically a 5-minute cooldown (or less, depends on how fast you can run those 3-4 monos)?
That is your opinion. My opinion is that the game became much more boring with that. Now, instead of making a character and building it for speed runs and making another character and building it for pushing, I could just switch it instantly and finished the content in a week instead of working towards that goal with multiple characters and finishing it in a month.
You could use one character before they added loadouts and you could continue to use multiple characters after they added the feature. How does a quality of life feature account for 3 weeks of gameplay difference? Even if you count leveling another character, the difference is like 12 minutes, that’s what it takes to level from 1 to 70 in D3. This is the most ridiculous argument I’ve heard in a while.
D3 allowing loadouts was simply another symptom that they targeted the game for casual players. It was implementing everything so everything is easy and you didn’t actually have to waste time playing the game. Which is fine, really. Not every game is meant for every player.
It just meant that D3 was not meant for me due to being numbingly easy, due to not incentivizing me to create new characters, due to how easy it is to gear up. Basically everything D2 wasn’t. Much like souls games aren’t for me either. I don’t like games that are that hard.
Games will position themselves on a spectrum of easy to hard. D3 was on the far end of easy. LE is somewhere in the middle. I hope it stays there. The more QoL features they implement where you don’t need to play the game, the less it becomes appealing.
Its all about choices. It’s a core design of the game. A fine one that does not need to be changed. You choose one build that is great for bossing, maybe another that is great for running maps, and sometimes you go for a mid-term build that can do both with fair performance.
All you need to know was already said here:
If you can’t see this is a real problem, keep being frustrated for nothing .
I’ll give you the same answer I gave earlier, as this is being discussed in another repeated thread.
“As much as you think it’s annoying to relevel skills to test other skill in your setup, and I felt this way sometimes, I have accepted it, it’s necessary and in fact it wasnt a big deal as I used to think.
At a certain stage of the game, it’s pretty easy to swap skills. The game also is hinting you the best way. While releveling the skill you will have to fight monsters and see the new setup in action, instead of just swap skills and do a dummy test.”
Forcing you to waste time does not make a game harder.
What I don’t get is why are you and others against making changing skills less of a chore but being able to skip the majority of the campaign and power level in monos is okay.
Why is snapping two T7 prefixes on an item with no level requirement okay?
There are multiple ways to skip the chore of leveling another character in this game so making changing a couple of skill points around a chore doesn’t make sense to me.
No, you always have to level it. You just have different ways to do it. And right now, you still need to do a large part of the campaign to get idols and passives.
What I don’t understand is why having to play the game for 5 minutes so you can relevel your skills such an issue to you.
LE’s systems, in general, incentivize making new characters. They also incentivizes you to experiment while deterring cheesing tactics. If you’re this upset about having to play the game, my only conclusion is that you’re annoyed that you can’t use cheesing tactics.
No, I’m not upset about playing the game, I’m upset about the game forcing me to play a gimped build for 5 minutes just to be where I could be in 5 seconds. Upset is not even the right word, I just don’t get why it’s necessary. It’s like having to place your shoes in the drawer even if you’ve just come inside the house for 2 minutes then go out again.
Games don’t have to have all the QoL features. They don’t have to make everything easier.
You don’t demand FromSoftware to implement maps or quest trackers or many many other QoL features that souls games don’t have. I mean, you can demand them. Many players did. And FromSoftware ignored them and kept the game like it is. Because they don’t want casual players playing their game. They don’t want players that need all the QoL. Their game’s identity is completely opposite that
Making you think before your choices is also part of a game’s identity. Letting you experiment while preventing you from cheesing is also part of a game’s identity.
D3 didn’t care about this, it just wanted the casual players that don’t want to think too hard and want everything easy and fast. You played for a day and you were already speed farming GR120.
I don’t want LE to become D3, much like I don’t want LE to become a souls game. What I want from LE is what the devs seem to be aiming for, which is a sort of PoE/GD inspired game with novel ideas. And there are many QoL features being asked that would clearly shift LE towards the D3 side of the spectrum, namely instant respecs and mastery respec.
Because some people think that what you are proposing would be a net negative to the game overall because of what it would allow to happen. They also prefer choices having “weight” while not completely locking everything in stone when you click the ok button (which there should be).
You prefer the “QoL” of being able to easily swap between different builds for different things & that’s fair enough, different people are allowed to like different things & different games are allowed to do things differently. There being variety in games is a good thing.
Unless you have a friend who’s willing to give you the waypoints to pick up the quests for those idol slots & passives.
Because he sees it as mindless busy work which is preventing him getting to the, hopefully, interesting bit quickly. He’s not getting the dopamine hit quickly enough.
Sure, but game rushes by friends is a separate issue. That happens in PoE as well where you’re allowed to skip large parts as well. We were talking, or at least I assumed so, about leveling a character on your own.
Yes, that’s fair. And I do understand his point of view. I just get frustrated trying to explain several reasons why this is a bad thing and only getting back the same answer “but who does it hurt? I wanna, I wanna”.
Even if you count leveling another character, the difference is like 12 minutes, that’s what it takes to level from 1 to 70 in D3. This is the most ridiculous argument I’ve heard in a while.