Melee Patch 0.7.10

Feedback and Suggestions
21

Yep, I deleted the armor/shield paladin (was only 47) and am going to rebuild it all over. I’m sure it can be done.

The good thing about getting wrecked like this in EA is that you grasp on release exactly how everything works.

My suspicion here is that Armor used to protect against ranged. It looks to me that ranged now ignores armor (pretty much) and is essentially ruled by the new Physical Resistance. Since my paladin gear didn’t have “physical resistance,” then ranged mobs were two-shotting me. We’ll see in rebuilding how that plays out, but I suspect that was the issue.

22

Just got to the council chambers, so about level 8. The tooltips on Armor say it protects against ALL hits EXCEPT DoTs. However, there’s a trade off with how much health you have so perhaps that’s what was happening with your other Paladin?

23

The reworked defence looks good. But the monster damage is bonkers. I used a char with capped 75% res and 1500-1800 hp and it got blasted by a w50ish dot spam, actually the single fire juggernaut is enough to bring it down if you stand in his fire cone. If i start crunching nrs, it would be some absurd thousands dps dished out at wave 50? which in this game is untankable and is solved by… kiting until wave 800 or so.

This is why i’m not getting a real fan of the gameplay and meta of LE, not interesting to use a melee char to play ginkana between multiple big hp mobs spamming stacked untankable aoes

24

Armour used to be Physical Resistance in the old system. Armour now functions closer to Glancing Blow (in that it reduces damage from all “Hits”) but scales like Dodge (in that it varies by area level and has a cap). You can visually see how Armour scales here.

Physical Resistance was added to Resistances in the new system. Considering most enemies in the game typically have some kind of physical damage component, it is important to get your Physical Resistance to cap at 75% (by endgame). Depending on the ranged attack, it’s damage may have been exclusively Physical, which is likely what occurred in your case.

25

I think that was exactly it.

26

So you’re complaining about how white mobs are too much of a struggle but then pretty much answer your on question as to why. You went for a full defensive build and they reworked defenses…I dunno what you were expecting but this update was going to mess up every character.

And it’s not like the system is broken or anything. Your character just has ZERO physical resistance. Which isn’t weird considering the stat didn’t even exist yesterday.

Lol I know it sucks but aren’t you being a bit of a Drama-Llama right now. It’s a beta so expect to lose all characters anyway. Also he was 46 I mean come on, not even at the start of the endgame. Toughen up.

1 Like
27

Nah, relax, guy. Nowhere in here did I rant that I was going to uninstall if the devs didn’t turn back the changes.

This is the Feedback section. I gave my initial feedback and then tried to figure out why I got that impression. I deleted the melee and rerolled it, after suspecting it was the split in armor stats. Turns out, the other posters and my testing proved that right.

28

Did they cut mob damage by 50%? if not the Glancing Blow removal is going to require every mob in the game to be rebalanced…which is simply why the GB mechanic should NEVER of existed in the first place.

That’s what happens if you provide feedback people don’t agree with, they go on the offensive telling you your opinion is actually wrong. its amazing

29

The problem with you is that you seem to think you’re the smartest guy in here and everybody that disagrees with you is an idiot. This is also very amazing.

Nobody here doesn’t promote valid feedback. The hint to the OP was just, that it is to early to judge the defense changes after hopping into the game on a previous made character that obviously is messed up now.

On topic:
@Llama8, @AndrewTilley, me and others have tested the new mechanics over and over with several different classes and SSF in story and monolith.

Subjectively and objectively the changes have a much higher defensive potential.

  • You have resistances now, that are relatively easy to build, later with set affixes that now can be put on to a greater variety if different item types than before.
  • Armor is the new glancing blow that protects against all hits as an additional layer of defense
  • Block has it’s own defensive rating and is another layer of defense on top - huge buff!
  • Vitality increases hp pool and hp reg % - huge buff because it’s also an additional layer of defense now

Also be aware that the FG tree got an overhaul and the mastery specific bonus no longer reduces damage by 30%. But theres a lot of new stuff in there that make up for this.

If you play a new character from scratch you will notice that the incoming damage is more streamlined and peaks an oneshots don’t happen that often anymore, if you build properly.

Regearing an already existing character wasn’t easy before. Now with all these changes it may even have gotten harder. I struggle with that to. I got none of my existing high level characters to work properly with some few exceptions. But all my new characters work fine.

So please just experience the new system for a while before you give your feedback. Build from scratch and share your thoughts.

That the old characters won’t work anymore without any time investment in respeccing and gearing is just obvious and also was stated by Judd in the patch preview.

2 Likes
30

raises eyebrow

It can, the first build I ran though 0.7.10 was a sword & board Pally & it was fine (this build if you’re curious). I will say (as I think I did before) that it’s a lot easier to gear up a new character rather than rework one at higher level, not that it can’t be done, but it’s not as easy as a new character & I’m lazy.

It still does.

Kinda, if any mob did physical damage & you had zero in a lvl 48 area, then you actually had -48% (instead of 27% if you were at cap) due to the mobs penetration. Any physical damage be it melee, spell or ranged would have done significantly more damage to you than before because you would have gone from probably 50-75% damage reduction to -48%.

31

Impressive new patch :slight_smile:
Not tried most of it yet, but made a new character and loving the changes to the early game. Especially all the new boss fights and layout changes which makes areas feel way more unique.

32

TLDR: Takes a little effort but you can rework your char under the new 7.10 system and it opens up other possibilities which may improve things.

Just ‘fixed’ most of my VK Rive build with two new crafted gear items which effectively cap all my resistances - made a HUGE difference to tankability and has almost restored it to where it was before 7.10.

Based on how much of a difference it has made, I would say that top priority right now would be to cap resistances in favour of anything else first.

Have not gotten enough in Armour yet (based on Tunks armour mitigation graphs) and I need to mess around with my base stats (Str/Attunment etc) after the changes but I still have plenty of affix ‘space’ in other gear to address this and maybe even try for some damage boosts.

33

Melee can be done this patch even high end-game. As mentioned by others, it is a lot easier to make a new character and gear it than it is to gear old character (Unless you have a lot of gold)

Shield is very strong if you want to be super tanky.

2 Likes
34

Only 1 comment about what followed my last post and concerning “feedback” and not “jumping the gun” and posting “too soon” before testing.

I’m an author, not a game developer. I’ve written over 150 books and the very first thing I do when offering something new for feedback is to ask my editor and others: “What is your gut reaction?” What the reader felt is immediately more important to me than the questions I ask following that: the what; why; who; where; etc. Later, I ask if it was appropriate, pertinent, understandable, concise, etc.

Like I said, I’m not a game developer. However, most “producers” of goods follow that very same process. Customer perception is huge - the largest consideration. I’m sure EHG aren’t just a bunch of nerd-number-crunchers who don’t care about their customers. So I gave my gut feeling: “feels bad, man.” Followed by testing to try figuring out why I felt bad about it and what could be done to overcome it.

Simple process. This is feedback.

1 Like
35

Guess your feedback is that you might just be jumping the gun here.

I’d love to read something of you though. 150 books is…impresive to say the least? I mean Stephen King is considered one of the fastest writing authors and he only managed to publish 61 novels. I’m guessing you’re not even 50 so I really, really want to know how you achieved this.

Now I’m not saying that you are a liar. I’m just really really interested to read more of your genius now.

1 Like
36

I think the crucial problem was you had no physical resist on a character that isn’t building dodge or ward. Your character’s defense is based on having resists (formerly protections) and yet you had a big fat 0 on at least one of them.

Then we get into zaen’s screenshot and experience. I think that’s where the real kicker is at. Fully maxed out resists with a shield and he’s getting pummeled by DOTs. They really need to figure something out on DOTs. Resists is supposedly the only defense (besides damage reduction that you can’t really gear for) and yet it’s killing someone with max resists. The damage really needs to be toned down OR the tick rate needs to tick at a bigger interval uniformly (2 different DOTs tick at the same time even if they were applied at different times).

And my last point… why are you being an ass, Nathek? I don’t think the OP was being rude or overly whiney. He had his feedback and was helped. He found his solution. I don’t really understand why you have to be an ass about it.

3 Likes
37

Another mitigation stat just to mitigate DoTs would be fine I think. Maybe “Toughness”. It could just be damage reduction for DoTs only.

I would say to buff health regen to counteract but that would make regen OP when not in DoTs.

38

Because thoroughly testing a system like this takes time. Sorry if you perceived I was being an ass about it, but aside from calling OP a Drama-Llama (so offensive) I don’t think I’ve stated things that weren’t true.

…Perhaps you need some Forum Resistance on your gear. :kissing_heart:

1 Like
39

To my eyes it’s certainly not an impossible task, I see it being done well elsewhere and is a major pain point and imo a nr1 priority to be addressed in LE.

More about “I see it being done well elsewhere”:
I hate to mention other games over and over, hence i’ll just say that I have a proper character with 10k hp buffer if glassy up to 15 sweetspot to about 20k hp if ubertanked.

Your char doesn’t really have any natural regen, like 50hp/s if you put zero thoughts into it.
It is a generic char, not one specific class/combo that has regen specialty, any class can gear/spec to get some hp regen midly 250/s or 500/s with some speccing into it. (for instance in LE a VK right now has no dedicated VK regen anywhere in his trees and the gear mods are already fulled and i don’t think regen mods are even that worth at all and have not been balanced as well like the monster dmg)

In a game where dots and monster balance have been done well, normal mobs with dot abilities are bashing your char for like 100-250dps dots (for like 3 seconds! until you move from the ground dot if you need to), plus the mobs autoattacks ofc which are the main damage source.


That’s it white mobs deal 15dps of 10k

I haven’t seen a big boss do more than 500dps dot.

So basically your 250-500regen is countering dots efficiently, a boss can ‘shutdown’ your regen and you’re hanging at 0regen exchanging blows and countering his autoattacks with your leech and then if you’re a ranged char some kiting.

When you are facing an horde of mobs with rares/heroes in the mix is where they stack up and you can probably get 1k dps of dots on you and have to worry about it.


If you are taking 1.2k dots and do nothing you will probably die in <10seconds because the mobs will ofc add damage with their autoattacks. In ~5seconds you can still see it coming and do something about it. You can still die if: you are too squishy/not built to stand this kind of dmg and/or you were risking bit much and get bursted down by an horde.

You are now losing -500hp/s of 10-15k, some people like to run around with almost 0 regen, but if all your sustain is based on leech, you get stuck in the loop where you have to (stop and) attack to sustain.
So regen does matter, and dots are NEVER stronger than the regen that you can achieve unless you are facing an horde.

Here in LE? A pack of normal mobs in the arena will overlap ground dots that will burn down your char. You have like 500-1500hp and are receiving probably a 500dot when with such low hp numbers it should really be like 20-50/s tops.
All that is possible to do in LE is to move and move, your char has no real way to build a regen buffer or anything. In the “arena push” videos done with a melee char they move the hitbox 1m to dodge the mobs autoattacks and stop to deal one 5k hit then kite 1m again over and over, which is ridicoulous

Sorry but the monster design is so bad and in my eyes with no real thoughts behind what they spam other than some “let’s make 10 monsters and give them a big slam with some colors”.

It makes me think of one of the most controversial content in PoE, syndicate, which especially in the first iterations had the same bad numbers, hillock and i think elreon had some oneshot slams, that fire guy killed you with one dot hit, and another spammed 10kiloton knives. Really try to not emulate poe as it has some of the worst balances out there, tanks dont exist and the “succesful” builds are some absurd broken chimeras for a arpg

40

What if different dot pools didn’t stack? So you get hit by a bunch of poison AoE’s & you only take the damage from the highest value one. But if you get hit by a poison & a bleed & frostbite then you’d take damage from all of them. Single target ailments would still stack as they do now (mobs with a chance to poison, bleed, etc) but mobs that dump the same DoT pools on the floor (the flowers that drop poison pools, void scorpions & their big spikey void dot pools, etc) don’t stack.

1 Like