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Melee Minions AI as a ranged Necro

I know people are already aware, but playing with melee minions as a ranged Necro i.e. using Zombies/Hungering Souls or other ranged attacks feels REALLY bad. I’ve been trying to make something work for about 3 weeks off and on, the only thing that doesn’t feel horrible to play is Skeleton Rogues since they have the leap that puts them into combat quickly.

I also know there was some sort of AI update, so I assume it was pretty bad before and may be better now but it still feels pretty horrible to play with melee minions as a ranged Necro and having to run into the middle of packs in order for the minions to become aggressive.

I also know that you can manually send them in to fight but having to inch through an Echo spamming A is super clunky and annoying.

All of that out of the way, I’d like to petition to have the aggro range on Skeleton Warriors, Death Knights and other similar melee minions increased drastically. This may or may not be the best way to do it but when you have half of your melee minions sitting next to you while half is running off and actually fighting makes me hate the one archetype I love in ARPGs.

If this is something that could receive a little more attention at some point I know others and myself would be greatly appreciative.

I just want to raise my undead army of warriors and death knights and watch them actually charge into battle while I cast my spells from the back line rather than tapping A to redirect them constantly.

Thank you for reading, still loving everything else about Last Epoch so far. Even ranged minions when I rage enough to do a full build swap.

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I think it has been over 2 years now that we have had feedback after feedback say the same thing. I imagine AI is hard to code, but there appears every likelihood that the solution is a simple number change to the range variable.

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Yea, the ranged minions work just fine in my opinion. Haven’t had any issues with them, the problem seems to be melee minions specifically. The just never want to get into combat unless you yourself run into the middle of everything first, which defeats the entire purpose of playing a minion build.

It’s true… the bone golems also just stand there. They are all supposed to attack instantly but they don’t. So playing any necro pet build is really a pita. You get half the outgoing dps at any given time. Your minions are usually standing right next to you.

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I have remapped this to my mouse’s thumb button. This feels so much better.

I don’t think aggro range is the solution. Because your skellies might just spread out even more. Generally you want them to focus the same target so they can burst everything down.

To be honest: As a Necro you don’t have many active skills. The most important skill in your arsenal in terms of combat mechanics is the attack command. I’m using it continuously an on every single mob pack I encounter.

To me there is no difference in pointing my mouse upon an enemy and cast a spell or send my army towards him. It’s mechanically the same thing. It’s just pressing a button.

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+1. I don’t understand why some people are so salty about being given a built in “Pet Attack/Move” hotkey, and that using it regularly and with thought generally makes pets more effective than just passively yoloing through a map letting the AI that’s (hopefully) dumber than the player make all decisions.

Like you said, it’s just pressing a button in the same way you would to cast a spell. And it’s one of the very few buttons that passive gameplay focused necros need to press at all. “UGH I can’t believe I have to press buttons in this ARPG” is a complaint that makes zero sense to me.

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Agree to disagree, I find it clunky and annoying and again if you’re farming higher corruptions then you should already know.

I’m talking about melee specific minions, they need an aggro range increase, period. If you disagree I have to assume you don’t play melee minion Necros or don’t play high corruption levels. The ranged minions attack just fine.

All I did was restate what you were saying in a more succinct and less charitable way as a method of pointing out that your complaint is drowning in hyperbole. My experience with melee minions is that they attack everything I’d expect them to attack and I rarely need to press A to “get them to attack anything at all”. Melee minions not having an aggro radius of the entire screen, which is a minor drawback that you can overcome with a button press, is not “clunky” unless your expectations on minion AI are from bizarro world.

Your assumption is wrong on both counts. Try deflecting with that toxic elitist gamer playbook on somebody else, champ.

You tried to combine multiple competing playstyles into one build and it requires more work than a build that has full synergy within itself. That’s the problem, not melee minion aggro radius.

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Forgot to add that I’m not playing a lazy Necro build, I have as many buttons to press as many other builds people play, if you told them they needed to press and extra button on top of their others in order to do 90% of their damage I’m sure no one would be too happy about that.

Another agree to disagree.
As an example, the wraith tree has a node (locus of resurrection) that will theoretically allow one to cast a wraith at a location for a mana cost. The wraith gets cast at the location you want, you’ve paid the tradeoff (more mana and time spent casting), then the wraith runs back to your side even if you press A.

I have no problem with the A key gaining some power for players, but every problem with it being mandatory, or simply not working.

The difference is that the necromancer class is purported to be a different style of play to spell casters, one where constant targeting can specifically not be the focus if you find that frustrating (and I very much do).

I definitely do not want the skellies to focus the same target. If I’m a squishy necro, I need the minions to be a defensive layer, do a bit of blocking for me when enemies come from all sides as they do regularly. I also need them to clear an enemy that is next to me while I am dodging that enemy. I do not need them to run next to me while I have my mouse on where I need to dodge to, which would by definition not allow me to simultaneously hold the A key on the thing I wish them to attack.

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Thank you Grim, I lack the eloquence to present issues the way you do.

You’re right. I agree. Just gonna leave it alone.

Thats exactly why you guys struggle with higher content with a Necro. You refuse using the attack command out of clunkyness.

I’m playing empowered monos with Rogue/Death Knights with ease. It’s the chilliest character I have.

If you just walk through the map and let the AI decide what enemy to attack, most of you minions will attack different enemies. This way killing enemies takes way longer. Also chances are that in those fights your minions get killed because it takes so long. This is not extremely effective for melee minions, but also for ranged minions. Focus is the most important thing for a minion build.

And obviously charging into battle with a squishy Necro to let your minions follow is not a very effective play style as you already stated. In an RTS where you control several units you also give them attack commands. You let them focus the most dangerous targets so they don’t kill your units first. Same with commanding your army. If you increase aggro range it only makes it worse. Minions will spread out even more. We had increased aggro ranges in the past and it was not good. Keep your minions grouped up and focus your targets.

That’s why the enemy of my enemy node of dread shade is so strong with melee minions. You cast it on your main target press the attack button and burst everything down.

So I don’t get why you refuse so hard to use the attack command. It solves all your problems. Even if you have such an active playstyle that you need to use all 5 ability slots. It’s just a 6th button. It’s not that you need to press a weird combination of different buttons. Its pressing one single button. And as I said, it’s so convenient having it on your mouse thumb button.

That’s the reason you guys feel left alone here. Because the majority of Necro players is using the attack command and thus doesn’t struggle like you guys do.

I get it. I fully understand that with not using it, you are not able to beat higher content. So its necessary to use it. My suggestion is to get used to it. It’s not as clunky as you guys pretend it to be. Because no AI can solve these problems for you.

I try to help here. If you refuse to adapt, you will be stuck where you are with your Necros, while others that don’t, have a good time.

The problem is that it shouldn’t be necessary, I play exactly like that and it sucks having to micromanage in an ARPG as if I’m playing an RTS. It’s not hard, nothing hard about it at all, extremely easy to do actually. It’s just a clunky annoyance that does NOT need to exist at all. Your minions should be able to sense enemies around you and go attack them, period.

Every other ARPG has this function perfectly fine, there’s no reason it shouldn’t work the same in Last Epoch. The reason they can’t is due to poor AI i.e. melee minions having an aggro radius about as far as I can piss, and standing around doing nothing unless you tell them to attack or drag them close enough.

As I stated before if you told any other class that they need to press another button every 10-15 second in order to do 90% of their damage, they’d be pissed. Why? Because it’s clunky and shouldn’t be a thing. It’s nice that the attack command exists for situations where you need them to focus fire on a boss or a tougher mob, but in general play the fact you NEED to micromanage them in order for them to even work is poor game design. There’s no two ways about it, it’s not an opinion. It’s objectively worse gameplay in an ARPG. If I wanted to play an RTS I’d go play an RTS.

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Not really… if you’re a new player… and you’ve read in a patch that “we’ve updated minions to smash boxes and auto attack” then that’s really what you expect them to do. But when you have a boss fight, you’re trying to run, work mechanics, move 3 different kinds of minions, recast your mana and specifically target what needs to be targeted it gets a little hairy. I can’t do the mechanics if I’m constantly mouse targeting and clicking the A key-that’s all we’re saying.