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Mechanics from other ARPGs that I hated, are they in Last Epoch, even partially?

as the tille said:

  1. Boss One-shoot :
    in Grim dawn you had some bosses, I’m thinking, maybe the act 2 or 3 (do not remember very well), who could 1 shoot your character.
    Granted this attack was indicated by a special move, etc etc, but I’m too slow to react to that.
    And even then in GrimDawn usually bosses kill you fast or you kill them fast + there were usually no room to manoeuver in their fighting area.
    As an example, this is something done right in Diablo 3: bosses had big attacks as well, but a mistake did not mean end of the fight, you could always recover.

  2. Mini-Bosses non-doable with some builds:
    In Grim Dawn there were non-mandatory mini-bosses that could be taken down only by some classes/build. For me this is the pinnacle of un-balanced gameplay, and every boss/miniboss/whatever should be doable by any correct build.
    This is also something done right in Diablo 3.
    How is it in Last Epoch ?

  3. POE Labyrinth / Rogue like dungeon:
    In POE, the labyrinth was a mandatory rogue like dungeon, as they gated some specific skill points behind this.
    In Grim dawn there were, basically non-mandatory rogue like dungeons, except for 1.
    They were non-mandatory for the sory, but they placed specific items on monsters there, so if you wanted a specific build, one of those dungeons was mandatory.
    I do not care there are rogue like dungeons in an ARPG, but only if they are totally optional and every items/crafting mats/etc can be gathered throughout the “normal” content.
    The labyrinth is what made me stop play POE, thankfully I did not buy anything yet from their overpriced store.
    How is it in Last Epoch ?

  4. Seasons gating QOL stuff:
    In Diablo 3 they gated additional stash tabs behind season goals, some of the later ones as well.
    I do not care about having seasons and cosmetic rewards.
    But this stash tab thing was wat made me stop playing Diablo 3 and not buy the necromancer DLC.
    I’m well aware seaons are not a thing yet and far in the mind of 11H, so this is more a suggestion: do not place somewhat mandatory stuff behind seasons.

Guessing this is number one because it’s the thing you dislike the most, and unfortuantely for you, I’d say it’s a distinct feature of LE combat vs bosses and some dangerous trash.

  1. Yes but they’re all telegraphed & avoidable.
  2. No (IMO).
  3. No, though we are getting dungeons, the devs haven’t said much about them.
  4. No idea since they’ve not even hit 1.0 let alone started doing seasons. Stash tabs are all purchased with in-game gold.

Fortunately they’re all telegraphed. Even Embermages’ meteors are telegraphed (though they can be cast from offscreen, which isn’t great).

Edit: If OP thinks his reactions might not be up to snuff, there are videos that go through them all plus a tankier character might help.

Thanks I edited to make it more clear, yes I meant “one-shoot” :slight_smile:

  1. Yes and even faster and bigger ones. On top of it some random enemyshave said kind of skills from time to time as well untill nerfed or fixed.

  2. Yes. You can mess up skillbuilds that badly “BeCaUsE I LiKe To PlAy LiKe ThAt BrUh!” and nothing works out what makes some enemys unbeatable.

  3. No idea if something like this will be in LE so fat it isn’t.

  4. No idea if something like this will be in LE so fat it isn’t. Games with seasonal content simply offered stuff to make people play. No idea if LE will implement something alike but afaik there are no plans for it.

So far it don’t look good sadly.

is there any aRPG game where even a normal monster can’t one-shoot you at high levels? :smiley: I mean if you build no defenses or badly geared you 'll be one-shot all the time. But all bosses attacks in LE are well telegraphed and there’s no such mess on screen like in PoE so you are able to see them all pretty clear and avoid.

Like Grim Dawn (and other ARPG’s), this all depends on how you build out your defenses. Outside of a select few super bosses, I can’t say I was ever one-shot in Grim Dawn with a well geared character (minus the hard lesson I learned from the few enemies that can dispel your buffs). I would say the same applies here, though you can visually see most high damaging enemy abilities and move out of the way to avoid them in LE a lot easier, in comparison to GD.

I’m curious what you consider the “mini-bosses” of Grim Dawn to be? Because if you’re talking about the super bosses (Crate of Entertainment, Mogdrogen, Callagadra, Ravager, Lokarr, etc) than those types of enemies don’t yet exist in LE, and thus I can’t tell you with certainty that any build would be able to defeat them when they do arrive.

Dungeons are coming next patch and we don’t yet have enough information about them to answer this with certainty at this time.

Online and cycles are not yet apart of the game. I’d say that it’s unlikely that QoL stuff would be gated behind cycle content - and definitely not the example you give as stash tabs are purchased with in-game gold - but I don’t know for sure and thus can’t answer this question with absolute certainty.

It sounds like you are looking for an easy game. LE is pretty easy at first, but then you push the difficulty as far as you want. The story isn’t done yet, so we don’t know yet how difficult it’s going to be.

  1. Bosses can 1-shot you in any ARPG if your defense is bad. That’s kind of the point of boss fights. I’ve played a lot of Grim Dawn; Act 2 and 3 bosses are the easy beginner ones. So far, boss fights in LE feel faster to me. Both games you push the difficulty until your build doesn’t work any more, then fix your build.

  2. I believe LE intends all classes can do all the content. I expect some difficult content is coming. That said, all classes in Grim Dawn can take down the “non-mandatory mini-bosses” with a decent build. It’s just more complex than something like D3. Grim Dawn has some end-game super-bosses that are only do-able by some uber builds. I don’t think it’s wise to compare games based on content done by less than 1% of players.

LE has more content and balance coming so I think it’s too early to make fair comparisons. I expect some really tough boss fights in LE. If Grim Dawn and POE boss fights are not your thing, I don’t think you’ll like LE either.

Thanks all for the answers.

I’m not looking for an easy game but correctly balanced one. Something which I think was never the case of GD (I know the devs of GD have a particular definition of “balance”).

Here are some comments/answers, a bit mixed up:

  1. yes I was talking about a “correct” build and not a random messed up one with no synergy and bad items.

  2. if the attack are telegraphed enough that is ok. I was thinking of a boss in GD that was putting his hands up and creating a rain of Aether. It was not an end-act boss.
    I do not remember having been one-shot by bosses in D3, or it was not that dramatic. I was never frustrated by such an experience in Diablo 3, while I was a lot in GD.

  3. By mini-boss in GD I was thinking of the ones that appear when you are at the lowest reputation with a monster faction and appear randomly on the maps. If you cross them and do not have the correct build, it is a chore

Also in GD the more you progress in difficuties, the less builds, even optimised, was valid.
While in D3 you could play most characters with most optimized build, that was ok.

  1. In Grim Dawn there is only few bosses which are dangerous and no, normal bosses even with special moves can be tanked with resist and items/def mechanics. Its not POE, where even little mob can oneshot you. Still there is milions dropable items. Only one problem is when you deal 100% fire dmg and boss is fire immune.
  2. All Mini-Boses are killable by weak build, even by garbage no synergy builds. Super-Bosses need special builds or tons of farm green rare items, which are most powerfull but need god rolls.
  3. Poe lab i agree, i hate this mechanics, becuse ascendancy is mandatory, and you cant play without it.
    Grim Dawn dunegons 100% nope, you not losing loot after dying there plus this dunegons can be mechanically dodged or tanked when you focus on dungeon resist. And loot can be really good when you hunt special item.
  4. Seasons are fine, but compared to PoE i like to season league in main game, so i can continue with atleast new hero but with my farmed stash. Not everyone have time to nolife like in PoE, after 2k H i have max 30 exalts, which top players farm like crazy in 2-3 days. I just need my stash, my stuff my toys, with no garbage rng like in poe, where you cant drop anythink good.

Chase rewards are good, its only cometic anyway. I only farm helmets in poe, becuse rest is behind god tier grind. Problem with Last Epoch is that its not full game, only cosmetic, uniques still have no models, most armors have no models, so im a bit concern how it will be in the end.

Ah, so you’re talking about the faction Nemesis bosses, which are just below super-bosses in overall difficulty and can offer some really good rewards. I wouldn’t say LE has content similar to Nemesis bosses yet, so I can’t make a direct comparison for you.

Yes the Nemesis was their name :slight_smile:
But also some other like the vampiric girl etc …
My point is that those kind of things should be doable by any correct/optimized build and not just some specific ones. That is my definition of balance. Otherwise what is the point of having that many classes / builds, if in the end only a handful is able to do the content ? That just kills diversity.

I would have liked to edit my OP but I can’t any more it seems.
I have a 5th concern:
5) Immunities:
this is something I hated in Diablo 2.
If you built a character focusing on 1 damage type, you would eventually cross an unkillable ennemy. Even with resistance reduction skill it could become painfully long to kill even thrashes. And if I remember well in the higher difficulties you could even get ennemies with 2-3 immunities.
This is something D3 and Grim dawn handled better, GD with resistance reduction skills.

How is it in Last Epoch ?

There are immune phases or conditions in various places. I put a couple of examples in the spoiler tag to give you an idea of what goes on.

  1. There are soul conduits that keep the lich in one quest immune to damage until they are killed.
  2. The first boss in the end game Abomination, has the same mechanic as above. It is immune to damage until all 4 soul conduits are destroyed reducing the arena to fight in.

Mobs in LE don’t generally have resists (or armour) unless the mob base type says they do (of which there are only 2-3) or you select an “enemies have xx% all resists” modifier in the monolith.

There’s one boss (Abomination) that has an immune phase as @jehzir says, but I can’t think of the other one he mentions.

Re editing a post, there’s a small pencil icon on the bottom-right of your post which will allow you to edit it for up to something like 2 weeks.

If it is a specific combat mechanic that is fine.
In D2 you could cross a bunch of trash mobs with resist and you could spend a huge amount of time to kill them and in later difficulties you could be obliged to play multi to progress as in solo you had no chance of overcoming some champions or bosses.

For edition, yes but the pen is not present.
I suppose once someone “replied” to as specific post it is not available any more.

Well there is a bunch of ARPG right now but LE is the closest to classic so I suppose I will still buy it a some point (maybe in december at release of the next patch and hoping for a sale :slight_smile: )

He is talking about the quest echo in Blood, Frost & Death.

You can only edit posts that are not older than X days, this increases while your forum trust level increases. You also can only change the post up to 100 characters from the original post, when you edit it.

When does Formosus go immune?

Thanks for the info regarding editions.
First time I see such kind of rules on a forum.

We are not talking about the Boss Echo, but the 2nd Quest Echo.