This right here. But then he pointed out he never said Grim Dawn was good so he probably think it isn’t a good system either. 
Actually transmog system is in the roadmap for 1.4. So it will come.
3 Likes
Ohhhh, I missed that completely! Nice!
3 Likes
Some of which are accessable by all 3 masteries, and some which are only accessable by choosing a specific mastery.
Those skills are usually very thematic and distinct and easily recongizeable.
An Acolyte Floating around as a Reaper… that’s a Lich.
A Sentinel spawning a Void Bubble or Time Locking enemies,… that is a Void Knight
A Primalist running around as a Werebear, that is a Druid.
All of these give a very strong idnity to your characer by simply using them. And they are not accessable anymore when you choose a different mastery.
Your Sentinel become a Paladin, now you can use Judgment and Holy Aura and you are locked out of using Erasing Strike or Smelter’s Wrath.
All other game systems already alow a huge portion of hybridization.
Other ways to theme your character don’t give them a identity though.
Because running around with a Specific Unique item like Aparthy’s Maw or Eye of Reen can be done by literally every other character as well.
This is what Class Idneity is about, seeing a character doing certain things and instantly recongizing that.
I am not sure what other parts you are talking about, but all of them, except these mastery exclusive skills are meaningless, because all characters can have them anyway.
With what you suggested and want in your OP, your ONE single Sentinel will be able to do and fulfill all of these things on the same character, thus essentially removing all of its uniques identity.
3 Likes
Yay, another unique & novel thread that’s bringing heretofore unthought of ideas to the conversation.
Good job OP!
Me too, except I’m in my mid-40s & I disagree.
5 Likes
I don’t really agree with your point here (the drop at the number of concurrent players was very much expected and usual for this kind of seasonal game).
But I agree with your main point - I don’t like the current respec system (and although the mastery thing don’t bother me, I’m not opposed to changing it either).
And I completely agree that you should speak your mind - for some people here, it’s the 1000th time reading someone criticizing this aspect of the game, but for you it’s your chance to state your opinion. It’s just as important as any of those other 1000 times. Don’t let people who are against your suggestion shut you down just because they are against it and are tired of people saying it.
At the same time, you are not going to change their minds (just like they won’t change yours). There isn’t much of a point in debating with them. I suggest just ignoring their posts, instead of trying to reply to nearly every one - just agree to disagree. Otherwise it won’t be a discussion, it’s just a fight.
1 Like
Grim Dawn: I pick Soldier. I’m a Soldier till lv 10, then I pick Nightblade and become a Blademaster. That’s my new class, Blademaster. I can’t change it once it’s locked in (which is immediately upon adding points to the Nightblade Tree and closing the skill window)
Last Epoch: I pick Sentinel. I’m a Sentinel till I reach The End of Time, then I pick Forge Guard. That’s my new class, Forge Guard. I can’t change it once it’s locked in (which is immediately upon selecting Forge Guard on a screen that says THIS CANNOT BE UNDONE)
Seems like it’s similar to me?
3 Likes
Had to reply to this because it’s the first time I’d seen someone else portray my exact feelings on the subject. I loathe Breath of the Wild and how it changed one of my favorite franchises, but it’s a phenomenal game and I’d be delusional to say otherwise. Just because I recognize it’s phenomenal doesn’t mean I like the game though.
That being said, Grim Dawn is absolutely the pinnacle of single player ARPGs and every ARPG can learn a thing or two from Crate Entertainment as developers.
4 Likes
Path of Exile: I pick Witch. I’m a Witch till I do the Lord’s Labyrinth, then I pick Necromancer and become a Necromancer. That’s my new ascendacy, Necromancer. I can change it once it’s “locked in”, just need to use respect points and pick another ascendancy.
I don’t really agree, no. Grim Dawn is interesting, but IMO it’s far from being the pinnacle of aRPGs.
The idea of removing class identity is something i think we should talk about. Anyone here play Albion online? Not a direct comparison but it is close.
The game has 350K active daily users. That game has fully removed class features no? Not played it msyelf, but its in their marketing. 350K? is better then 70K. So there is clearly something they are doing right.
Edit: looking at sources to confirm player counts. Inconclusive.
This is the crux of the matter.
There’s a difference between pointing it forward… which is fine, absolutely is… and then ignoring the points the others make entirely.
So this doesn’t quite hold up:
Because if the relevant points mentioned then… yes… people would listen! Eagerly so!
Now let’s recap it in a few words what the issues are:
OP finds the Level reduction of the respec ‘too much’ as well as the lock-in of the mastery class. So far so good.
The counterpoints were:
Respec is handled that way to not allow ‘on the fly’ changes between solo-target setups and AoE setups. Because that’s something EHG wants to avoid. (And plainly spoken as I experienced that in PoE I know all too well why they would want that)
Mastery is part of the class, not some extra tacked on thing. Semantics mostly about if it should be changeable or not because of the naming way… which doesn’t matter. EHG has it limited so the replay-value of their product rises higher without being too much long-term. You have to re-do the progression over and over if you want to experience everything, that’s time-investment, hence player retention. Proven by other games of the genre in comparison to the retention time of D3.
And if that’s not enough reasoning… the amounts of players enjoying re-playing the progression itself is a fairly substantial amount, yes the others are too (me included), but EHG would be fairly dumb to piss of a good chunk of their players plus going against what they themselves find enjoyable while also experiencing it to align with a bigger playerbase… it’s the core aspect of why people stop D3 relatively quickly even when picking it up over and over.
So, how to ‘fix’ it and get someone to listen?
For the respec it’s simple: Find a way to avoid the option to switch between AoE and single-target setups before a boss and then you’ve got the attention of everyone. The downsides was repeatedly reduced, being a shadow of its former self. Nobody enjoys it for itself, it has a reason to exist though and that leads to a upside.
For the mastery class unlock it’s also simple: Give a way to prove that it wouldn’t be a massive downside for the longevity of the game. A logical deduction. Because with the current amount of content in the game it would be actively idiotic for EHG to even consider. With 5-10 times the amount of content that’s a different matter, not the case though.
So nah, it’s not about ‘making your point the 1000th time’ it’s about ‘making a point… which actually has a point’.
The game also is basically 100% focused on PvP and competition. Competitive games generally lead to longer retention times (as you always get a new challenge without fail, someone else) and hence are overall better received despite being far far more simplistic.
It’s a really… and I mean really simplistic game though mechanically. Like little twiddle baby LE level simple.
Also what you’re likely looking at is not ‘concurrent’ but total. Because no way in hell has Albion online that many people 
1 Like
Ye i doubt it. Steam numbers are public, but not the stand alone client and mobile. Mobile games have a tendancy to be full of bots. Was just me tossing something to move discussion in a more productive direction
This dumb argument you modern gamers keep pitching where everyone that doesn’t want a game to be a choiceless sandbox where nothing matters at all and FOMO slaves can undo anything at any time is just an omega hardcore sweatlord basement gamers is so unbearably pedestrian that it gives me hypersomnia every time I read it. But the most insufferable part of it is how you definitely know it’s total bullshit but you say it anyway.
Sorry the game is designed so that you have to commit to something. Not all of us are terrified of making choices. Come back when you’re on some drugs.
1 Like
No!!! Its actually ur class. These 5 base classes are nothing more than a tutorial leading up to where u pick ur actuall class.
Devs did this on purpose so new player arent overwhelmed like u see happen in POE
Devs have also said ur mastery is your class. Example u pick base class rouge u then reach end of time and pick blade dancer. U arent a rouge anymore your a blade dancer class.
Difference in LE is u dont pick ur actual class till chapter 2 vs picking it right from the start at character creation
4 Likes
This, exactly this.
Alot of players including myself would be done playing the game if respecing classes was addes to the game
I dont want another crappy D3/D4 game. Iv been playing this game since 2019 for a reason
Ur answer to this is right in what DJ said which u quoted.
The meta would change to be that of D3. This would also effect players learning there builds weak and strong point. Beable to swap ur class on the fly completely removes this.
Cuz now u just switch to a bossing setup then back to a clear speed setup. And removes the need to balance your build around bossing and clear speed
This is also why EHG isnt goinf to add load outs like D3 (i think it has this) it will result in the exact same thing as master class swapping
2 Likes
U are clueless
2.5k was towards the end of the first cycle. Thats normal for diablo likes that have seasons this happens in poe diablo 4
258k at launch so what every game under the freaking sun has a drop in players a few weeks after launch. U can see this in ever single game if u actually go back and look at launch week data.
Look at palworld. Same thing. Name ur game u will see the same trend. Majority of gamers dont even spend 50hrs in any given game.
2 Likes
But he’s not talking about PoE, he explicitly stated that Grim Dawn’s system and Last Epochs system is “apples and oranges.” when they’re basically the same system. Bringing PoE into the mix doesn’t make Grim Dawn and Last Epoch suddenly not similar just because it’s different.
Person A says “hamburgers aren’t a sandwich!”
Person B says “I have two pieces of bread with meat in between, seems like they’re similar to me?”
You say “Pizza has bread on the bottom and toppings on top.”
You’re entitled to your opinion on Grim Dawn, but just know that your opinion is wrong (joking, obviously)
Edit: I’d also like to add that the PoE example doesn’t work because Ascendency ISN’T your class. Last Epoch’s Mastery choice IS your class. Literally confirmed by the devs multiple times and explained in this thread repeatedly. It’s ironic that people call Grim Dawn’s “Masteries” a “label for dual-class systems” but can’t see that Last Epochs “Mastery” is a label for “Advanced Class”
2 Likes
100%. It’s my favorite aRPG of all time. LE could potentially top that at some point because I think EHG HAS learned a lot from Crate. Zantai and the lot over there are just bangers!
3 Likes
Zantai is a national treasure. I love their dev responses on both the official and Steam Forums.
Last Epoch is definitely the most Grim Dawn-esque ARPG on the market at the moment (aside from Titan Quest, for obvious reasons). It captures the build variety in a new way and has all of the same style endgame activities. Only major difference between the two is GD’s heavy focus on campaign w/ optional “endless” content and LEs focus on “endless” content with the campaign as a vessel to get there.
4 Likes