MAJOR nerf to unique target farming

General
81

Absolutely, morally.

How do you decide which one has realized it and which one didn’t?
‘I needed a new car and checked my account, realized it has a lot on it and got the more expensive one’.

At fault now because it’s a car? :slight_smile: Would it have been better to intentionally do it with a hospital bill?

The base premise is still existing and it needs to be removed, it wasn’t yours, you’re in debt now, pay it off… yes we give you more then enough time to not ruin you from a mistake made.

Yes, and that’s why it should’ve happened immediately.

It’s why I’m saying EHG ‘passed the date’, which is so… sooooo bad actually.

82

You don’t. Which is why you just chalk it all up to a loss and do nothing. It was your fault this happened in the first place, so others shouldn’t have to suffer for your mistake.

83

Yeah, I don’t go on Reddit (I’m not saying you’re wrong).

The really weird thing is that I’ve imprinted the new Witchfire relic in the node that procs on echo conpletion & I’m seeing quite a few of that particular relic drop from echo rewards that can’t drop unique relics.

Yup.

TBF towards your earlier assertion that it should have been fixed in the first few days, it may well not have been obvious that early. That’s the problem with bugs, they aren’t always obvious & us as players aren’t being reasonable to assume that a thing that becomes obvious after a few days/weeks was known to the devs equally early but “left in”.

You assume that everything that was released was in & testable when the CT started. That’s not how CT/development works, sorry.

Yeah, that shit does happen (no sarcasm).

84

Isn’t done unless it’s a neglicible amount. For good reason :stuck_out_tongue:
Obviously in a video game the limit is different then in reality, but it is absolutely there.

Which is why it’s currently not changed… but should’ve been before it came to this point. You know… one Cycle without a major screw-up from EHG… one, that’s all we need to see by now and it just doesn’t happen.

Really? Then their QA is crap, that’s a core mechanic to test and it becomes plainly obvious when you do it.
Doesn’t shine a better light on EHG, just a different one :stuck_out_tongue:

Even if not in the CT that’s something which has to go through internal testing or not be implemented. Heck… EHG postponed their release because of PoE 2, that’s the prime time to catch up on testing which has been postponed because of other stuff. Otherwise we could say ‘yeah, they screwed up their timeframe’ which implicates other issues when core testing isn’t happening rather then potential mechanical changes simply not implemented in favor of ‘getting something out’. But with that aspect it’s simply an unacceptable mistake which showcases that something dire went wrong in the process for EHG.

And that has to be ensured to never happen again hence.

So despite ‘shit happens’ it’s something which rightfully demands giving them flak for it.

85

Dude people pointing out the timeing of it and saying things like this should be fixed within the first week or left alone till next season doesnt mean. They want to exploit the bug.

Iv pointed out the the timeing as well as how long this season was available to CT. Exploits like this should NEVER EVER slide for a month into any seasonal based game be that poe diablo 4 ect

Believe it or not people can point things out like this and still agree with the fix. Which i do. I dont agree with the timing of it being a month in to season to. Iv also explained why this is.

So no me pointing out timing doesnt mean i want to exploit it nor does it mean the person ur qouto wants to exploit it by pointing out the timing either. Dont go ASSUMING. Notice in my post in this thread how i said how damn easy it was to see imprinting was broken. Wouldnt have been that hard at all for devs or CT’ers to have caught this. It was left broken for months only to get fixed a month into season 2.

Dont go assuming things just cuz someone points out the timing of something or even points out how bad it feels now. Thats like when i point out why the faction switching friction is badly thought out. And i go into detail explaining why. Only to have some tell me i just dont like it. Me liking hating it agreeing disagreeing has no baring on why iv pointed that out. And will keep pointing it out any time a thread is brought up about it.

People can point things out and still agree with it or not.

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86

I get the point, but it doesn’t make sense to me…

You’re either happy or unhappy the bug got fixed.
If you’re happy, ok…
But if you’re unhappy about the timing, so, you either want to abuse the bug more, or you don’t care people will be abusing it for the whole cycle… in both cases, you show a lack of care for the game’s health at a degree.

Timing has nothing to do with this… bugs should always get fixed as as they’re discovered, and soon as a fix is possible. (actually, if they only dealt with this next cycle, THAT’S what I would call a timing mistake, letting a known and fixable bug roll for an entire cycle…).

87

So, you’ve never worked in game development then… :+1:t3:

Yeah, I guess if you’re the kind of person who just enjoys throwing rocks at other people from the comfort of your armchair because they clearly aren’t as giid as you.

But you can also choose not to be a dick. It’s always an option.

88

Unless your name is Richard.

89

Even then, you can choose to be a bigger Richard or a smaller dick.

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90

I mean… that’s not a development issue, that’s a QA issue.
And those can absolutely have protocolls to not happen again, at least in that narrow area.

It’s not being a dick, it’s solely reacting according to the situation.

Did crap? ‘Yeah, you did crap, not good’
Did good? ‘Yeah, you did good, nice!’

What is it always with people defending crap decisions for some reason? ‘Oh, it can happen, good boy devs!’… no? You properly convey it’s not good so perception is there that it’s something which needs to be looked out for. Or do you prefer things being ignored non-stop? You as a customer have a right to a functional product. Those things actively inhibit the enjoyment of the product in a manner which could’ve been avoided, hence it needs to be addressed. There’s nothing more behind it.

EHG can now fix their method of handling those things… or they can keep on doing the same thing as before.

And to make it entirely clear… if it’s such a common normal thing to happen… why doesn’t Torchlight Infinite or PoE 1 struggle with the same issue despite having a faster content pipeline with larger scale mechanics for that time?
Clearly something is different for them in that small aspect.

I’ll always state again ‘this is crap’ as long as it’s crap. And I’ll also give a kudos where a kudos is due. Like the weaver-tree, great overall implementation, the weaver content is also great overall, kudos, good design! Minor stuff which could’ve been better placed otherwise but in the grand picture well done.

Now here I’m calling out another thing though, and that’s badly done.

You can only be an asshole if you do it one-sided, and not even then it’s clear if you are, it also depends on the way you do it. I for example say ‘EHG is bad with this type of stuff’. Is that wrong? If ‘no’ then why does it repeatedly happen? They have strengths they can lean into though, and that’s what makes their game good despite the shortcomings.

91

There are ways of saying it though. Just because you’re “just giving feedback” doesn’t preclude you from being a dick.

I’m also firmly on the “punching down is being a dick” side of the fence.

Conversely, not being a dick to people doesn’t mean you’re defending them. Nor do you (the impersonal you, not you specifically) know any of the details around this particular issue. Plus different cultures respond differently to how feedback is given & text is a notoriously low bandwidth medium so it’s fairly easy to just come across like a dick.

Yes, but you also know that life isn’t as simple as that, things that are “just a 5 minute job Llama” can easily take way longer for a variety of reasons & maybe it doesn’t happen today. Or tomorrow.

So as long as I give some positive feedback I can berate you as much as I want however I want?

92

Which is a fair argument for interpersonal relations overall.

It’s a different one for business transactions on the other hand, which we are in here.
EHG is not ‘family’ or ‘our friends’. They’re maybe likeminded, who knows? But what they are is a business partner. We bought a product, they provide a product. Respective quality is mandatory, not a bonus.

Isn’t berating and providing feedback a different thing though? One states ‘xyz is not optimal’ and best-case offering solutions to it even which you can see, as they might apply.
Berating is simply saying ‘this is shit and they can’t do crap’ without offering any insights at all. Like ‘game is crap’ posts. That’s berating.

If you say ‘EHG is really bad at xyz, hence zyx is likely needed to fix that’ it’s a negatively voiced feedback, a combination between letting out frustration while providing feedback.
Why in a negative way? Because in one part it keeps the poster emotionally regulated to not go ‘off the rails’ otherwise and on the other side to showcase that it’s a unacceptable state since a obligation wasn’t upheld.

So if you mean negatively worded feedback? Then I’m fine with it. If you actually berate me? Obviously not, that’s verbal abuse and isn’t to happen.
Also mind you, this can only be done towards a individual, not an entity like a company. You can state ‘this company is shit’ and it’s absolutely fine since the respective individuals working for it are not included in that statement, only the policies or the quality of the product causing the outward perception.

93

Yes & no. Just because you’re in a business relationship with someone doesn’t mean you can be a dick to them. You can provide business-related feedback in a polite way while still getting the message across that the performance/whatever is not at the expected/desired level. Do you harrass cold callers? Do you swear at them 'cause they’re working & you don’t want them to call you?

Yes, but, them not providing the desired/expected level of quality doesn’t give you permission to be a dick to them. You’d also likely be interacting with the lower paid employees which gets back to the “punching down = a dick move” thing.

I’d argue that the difference is of magnitude not of kind. And the last bit still gets back to the "so if I provide some constructive feedback I’m allowed to berate as much as I feel like?

But that varies by culture. Germans are more likely to be more blunt than the English in this particular scenario.

Ok, so what is a company? At what point does it cease to be a collection of individuals (who shouldn’t be abused) & become an amorphos entity that can be abused as much as one likes? How do you think the employees of said entity would feel, especially the ones that were responsible for the work that wasn’t the desired standard? Do people go to work in the morning & cease to exist, becoming some mindless cellular automata that make up the entity? You might think that you’re berating a company, but it’s still just people you’re berating.

This is why I don’t think that companies should be given any slack for acting like dicks, it’s not “the company” acting like a bunch of thieving manipulative arsehats by implementing egregious monetisation mechanics, it’s people. There are individuals making decisions & conscious choices to make other people (consumers) less human so that they can feel better about making less nice decisions (eg, to implement predatory pricing of MTX & the like). So whenever you feel aggrieved that Evil Megacorp did something bad, don’t be pissed off at the big faceless corporation, be pissed off at the individuals making the decisions.

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94

This isn’t really true, though. Because you’re implying that the quality of the people working there is shit. That they do a shitty job. Because if that wasn’t the case, then the company wouldn’t be shit.
In fact, it’s even worse because you’re just generalizing that everyone is shit, even if some of them are actually very good at their jobs.

What you’re saying is that me saying that “German people are shit” is totally fine because I’m not naming anyone.

2 Likes
95

Oh, absolutely! And before you freak out: Cold-calling is illegal in my country :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, but once again, being a dick would mean berating them, I hope I’ve made my difference clear.

Very fair, this is a international place as well though.

Also a very fair argument.

On the counterside with that argumentation line when can I call out a company? So if for example Tesla brings out another four-wheeled death-mobile not adhering to any safety standards related to their technology I can’t say ‘They’re a crap company’ because it would imply every single individual is bad, wouldn’t it?

And by the way, telling someone individual results of actions are bad is acceptable and even direly needed, telling someone they - as a person - are bad is not. And no matter how much you implement yourself into your work-life, it’s always only a part of your existence.

Imagine it like the following… if you order a wardrobe by a company, the deliver it and drag it up over the stairs instead of carrying it properly, bumping and chipping it before setting it up… and you ask them ‘why the heck?’ and the answer is ‘company policy’… then when you call their company shit are you telling them they did a bad job? No, you don’t, you basically say ‘the guy making this decision for that specific policy made a shit job and hence the whole perception of the company is down the gutter because it leads to a negative outcome which is generally unacceptable’.

If you say ‘German people are shit’ though… you actively address every german person. That’s a core difference.

96

Ok. Then it’s fine, according to your logic, to say “Germany is shit”. I’m not actively addressing anyone. Although I’m pretty sure many germans would feel personally insulted.
Of if I said “Africa/America/Europe/Asia/etc is shit”. I’m sure many in those continents would feel offended.

Because there’s really no difference between “Blizzard/Tesla/etc is shit” and “Germany/France/etc is shit”. Or even “London/Berlin is shit”.
Or even “Your building is shit”. Or even “Your house is shit”. Or even “Your room is shit”. (these last 3 can also be reworded so they don’t include “You/Your”, I just don’t know where you live exactly :laughing: ).
You’re always implying that people in that group are part of said shit, you’re just being more or less specific about who those people are.

And so, to get back to this, there is a difference between saying “That company is shit”, “That company is bad”, “That company is providing a bad service”, “I’m not happy with the service of that company”, etc.
They all provide the same feedback, but some are insulting to the people working there and others aren’t.

4 Likes
97

Oh, absolutely, you’ll echo a ton of germans with those words :stuck_out_tongue:

But I would agree even! All 3 of them are really ‘shit’ :stuck_out_tongue:

98

Maybe. But if a non-german does that in a public way, they’ll be flamed to death by germans (and from non-germans that, rightfully, think that is a wrong thing to say).

It’s not like there aren’t hundreds of real life examples of this in facebook or twitter.

99

You get flamed to death for existing on facebook and twitter to be fair :stuck_out_tongue:

100

I really dont think this hurt the games health in the slightest though outside of red ring/void.

Which btw, rav void can be turbo farmed with the harbinger echo that lets you skip fighting the boss, people were farming a dozen ravs this way as well. I expect it to be nerfed next, or is that one intended?

The only part about this that hurt the game was making the stupid meme rare items to easy to get.

200 bleeding hearts can already be obtained by clicking amulet prophecies. While farming those is just boring as sin, atleast farming the imprint mechanic was playing the game and not menuing for 2 hours.

2/3 of the red rings i dropped were gotten from ring prophecies and i spent about 350k favor, I also got truckloads of 3lp of common rings to the point it was actually shocking. ive probably made well over 3m favor so far this season and im sure people chain farming 1000c on VK have 10m+ made.

And if this is a MG problem, then seperate the modes right the fuck now and stop playing with this pretend “you can swap” I dont want my mode shit on by “market crashes” around items.

1 Like