Edit 5/15 Update for 1.2.4 patch: Looks like new patch notes may have improved this:
Imprint items more consistently drop items similar to them (they retain the chance to drop other uniques of the same item type, but this chance is much lower than in 1.2.3).
Original Post for 1.2.3 patch:
Patch just had a major nerf to unique target farming hidden amongst all the changes. Specifically this line:
Fixed a bug where imprinted Unique, Set, and Legendary items were unable to result in generating different Uniques or Sets than the imprinted one.
Maybe it was a bug, maybe it wasnât and they just wanted to reel in the power. Either way, it sure looked intentional and no one was saying it was a bug. It was very well known and people were using it a lot⌠and then they nerf it mid-season. I wish I had imprinted a bunch of red rings earlier instead of doing a bunch of common uniques for my build. I was going to do a second build with red rings but I might quit now.
I hopped on post patch and got it to proc three times on an imprinted red ring. All three times it gives me random other unique rings. So if you imprint a unique it now just gives you other random uniques/set items of that type.
Being in COF, imprinting uniques was probably the best addition to the game. I could get stash tabs full of the one unique I wanted and keep trying to put it in nemesis/turtle for a good LP. It felt really good and there was steady gear progression.
Now it feels awful.
Edit: And same holds true if you want to target farm a common unique. Want a Titan Heart which is super popular and super common? Imprint it and get a bunch of a random other unique & set chestpieces that are worthless for your build.
The wording seems to imply the opposite: imprinting a unique now increases the drop likelihood of that specific unique and not other uniques. Imprinting Red Rings should increase the drop rate of Red Rings specifically now.
Came here to talk about just this. I had recently started a build using Ravenous Void and now everytime the imprint activates it drops a bunch of random gloves. Itâs no different than using CoF prophecies. I see no value in this change whatsoever and after having had the opportunity to be able to get chase items without playing for hundreds of hours, itâs a real joy killer.
It absolutely does not make targeted items drop more often. I wish they would revert it back to what it was. Just getting the items didnât guarantee you would hit your synthesis or even have LP. Itâs pointlessly adding hours if not days to the time it takes to experiment and min max a single build. Had they not left it for as long it might not hit so intentionally negative, but the devs left alone, and like you said, no one was calling it a bug.
I mean, red rings and ravenous voids are supposed to drop naturally every 750 or so unique ring/glove drops. So this node will, in theory, reduce that requirement. Maybe to 1 in 500 or even 1 in 100.
I doubt youâve had the chance to have that many drops since the patch to come to that conclusion.
It just doesnât drop half a dozen per day, so youâre miffed about it. But they arenât supposed to drop that often, even with imprints.
I doubt youâve had the chance to have that many drops since the patch to come to that conclusion.
Umm, yeah. Iâve already seen it in action. If youâre popping a reward of âidolsâ and a bunch of unique rings pop out, it means it just triggered. Before the patch, when it triggered it would give you two or so of the imprinted unique item (often with changed LP or rolls). I saw it trigger three times and all three times it gave me random other rings.
It just doesnât drop half a dozen per day, so youâre miffed about it. But they arenât supposed to drop that often, even with imprints.
But it did. And it was super well known that they let persist. And it felt SUPER nice because it let you actually target farm the unique you wanted for your build. Instead of spending 100s of hours to try to get multiple copies of that one unique w/ LP, it made it into a manageable process with steady progress.
It was single handedly my favorite part of this patch, no doubt. And one of the reasons Iâve played so much this league already. And now itâs gone. No, I donât want to grind 100s of hours for one unique.
Apparently they didnât âlet persistâ, they just took longer to fix.
As I said, red rings and ravenous voids arenât supposed to drop half a dozen every day. That completely defeats their purpose. If it was supposed to drop that often, they would simply turn them into commons, rather than rares.
The node is supposed to make them easier to get, not guarantee that youâll have full stash tabs of it. It was a bug, it got fixed.
Sure, some players like having the most powerful stuff without having to actually work for them. After all, D3 was popular enough, so obviously there are players that enjoy that.
I donât think that they âlet it persistâ, unless itâs a big game breaking bug they tend to try & put out fixes for stuff in batches since putting out a patch outside of that breaks their scheduling.
That said,
I really donât get how the last sentence can be true if itâs no longer forcing the specific unique to be dropped whenever it procâd. If that was the bug (or unintended interaction) & the fix was to get some extra uniques of the relevant item slot (ie, rings, 2h axes, etc) then all itâs doing is giving you more uniques of the relevant item slot drop without making the specific unique drop more frequently so your last sentence is demonstrably false?
What do you mean? It doesnât have to be âThis item will always dropâ or âYouâll just get more of this itemâs typeâ. There are other options. Namely âYouâll have a higher chance to get the unique that is imprinted, but if you donât get it another of that type will dropâ.
This is what I assumed the node did from the start.
different then the imprinted one which means only the imprinted one could be generated. Now it sounds like others can drop as well.
Yes, thatâs a distinct nerf.
But also itâs as mentioned:
This is intended and absolutely acceptable. The imprints are supposed to increase the chance for those, not to make chase items drop like candies.
Chase items are chase-rarity for a reason, specifically so you donât get high LP ones easily - which with respective amounts of drops youâll do - to allow other items to not be without value in comparison.
This is the actual intended behavior. Youâre not supposed to drop 100 red rings per day.
Or ravenous voids.
Hence why it got changed?
You know⌠something exists⌠itâs not supposed to exist⌠hence it gets removed⌠logical chain.
It provides a different weight to said item.
Also it allows otherwise impossible to drop items to drop in general gameplay. Ravenous Void is a boss-unique, you arenât supposed to see it during normal gameplay, with the imprint you do though.
It still has power behind it, so imagining instead of 1 in every 500 drops itâll now be 1 in every 200 drops for example.
Thatâs a weak form of targeted farming and the method which provides the least rewarding feedback though. Functions⌠just sub-optimal.
A better option is when related to item power input into said slot the weaver tree âweavesâ gradually the item together, not a copy but one really similar. So the same unique⌠or a near copy of a exalted/rare item. The more power said item has the more power does the weaving consume.
Gradual progression, targeted, visible, rewarding hence psychologically.
Itâs not. It can drop from a specific boss (Husk of Elder Gaspar) at a higher chance (4.5%), but itâs also a random drop (0.11%).
Which is why it works on that node. Iâd assume boss-exclusive uniques wonât drop from that node.
I started playing LE because of the well explained depth, complexity, customization options, deterministic ways to get and make gear and the many systems that respects my time and makes a good experience. Intentional or not, I jumped into the game, went COF after seeing many streamers showcase the deterministic ways of this system.
Dropping a new unique for my build was a HUGE dopamine hit and an felt like an achievment but more than that, It was a promise that I could finally work on that piece, fish for LP, egg up the rest and improve my character.
I did not drop items like a Red Ring nor a Bastion of Honour yet.
I have been using all my runes of ascendance, been rolling shield prophecies but no luck (itâs rare, itâs fine)
But after this change once it does drop the situation will be MASSIVELY different.
I will imprint it into every slot possible and instead of the previous promises the situation will be the following:
-I am stuck with these rolls, this LP for a long time.
-I will see 317899825 different shield drops before this one drops again, then see if it has LP or Iâd have to yolo egg it up.
-I have MUCH less control over my gameplay.
-This change created hundreds of extra hours of gameplay and I am not playing this game for a living.
-I shouldâve gone MG.
-My time is not respected.
In conclusion, the system might be totally fine with a few tweaks. Give items a 10% chance to drop and the rest are other garbage uniques etc.
I am done playing games that wants me to achieve something over the course of thousands of hours in a season or keeps pulling levers on me, putting me into new uncalled for situations during a season. (eg. poe-poe2)
I am aware of the very hard work the devs put into the game and that they have concepts of a healthy game. They do some amazing, impressive work and LE is a breath of fresh air in the current ARPG era.
This has been the first time though where I truly felt like my time was not respected.
I might not even be the target audience. But if we stop being sweaty for a second, do people genuinely think that the game needs to be 200-2000 hours longer to finish (not uber min-max) a single character? Would that be fun?
If the answer is no that should bring up some questions.
This is the wrong expectation. Whoch promises?
The slots specifically state chance and based on rarity.
That they ignored that is an obvious bug, unintended.
Which is even more nonsensical since you wouldnât even be able to friggin get the quality of items youâll carry on your character there since they donât exist in MG. If you think MG is the greener pasture then make a second character and try to get your stuff done there, before that just ânoâ
âOh no, a unintended feature got balanced to work as intended rather then showering me with unintended amounts of loot, my time is not respected!â
That has nothing to do with time respect, youâre putting yourself on a pedestal there solely, pure entitlement. If you wanna skip the grind in a grind-based game (intended grind, not nonsensical one which needs to be smoothed out to allow proper progression) then play single-player and cheat the item in. Rarity creates perceived value, perceived value creates respective amount of felt success and release of dopamine.
PoE 1 doesnât, their system allow theoretically to alleviate it, they just lack the respectively needed QoL features.
PoE 2 does and Iâm 100% with you.
LE always did and people just say âno, it doesnâtâ. Which was always nonsensical. After reaching end-game once you can see the issues clear as day and it baffles me to this day why so much darn coping happens around this. Are people so blind to not see it or do they just rationalize it for themselves after itâs been pointed out? I donât know.
You know that you can target farm Ravenous Void from the woven echo that allows you to fight the harbinger after itâs killed the timeline boss? It slipped my mind that those gloves were in itâs drop pool. I farmed 6 pairs in 30 minutes. Far faster than with imprints.
Donât tell me what I know or how I feel. I can express myself without some random person on the internet taking up with my dissatisfaction over a change in a video game. There is a change in how imprints are operating. I was never farming 12 of anything in a day. My frustration came with having the experience be too similar farming with CoF prophecies, causing this new mechanic to feel like something I can already experience, creating redundancy.
You are wrong. Itâs your opinion. I have mine. Stop policing people you disagree with.
Intended or not, they are aware of how it worked, how people have been using it since launch, how people have been interpreting it etc.
The question always remains, does this change make the game better or worse? Again, I might not be the target audience here.
Of course I do that. I am a person itâs my task to worry about my own fun and you can tell me how I am wrong that doesnât stop me from having an opininon and a feeling about a product.
I wrote a segment about how they can probably tweak things around and it be fine. I am not looking for a grind skip. I am looking forward a more deterministic gear progression in a game that I THOUGHT was not made for only the unemployed + streamers.
I am pretty sure I am not the only one who feels like this over, again a PRODUCT.
The reason why I took my time to post here is because the devs might see it.
This one change shifted the way how gear progression, deterministic loot and the overall experience works. You can label what is intended or what is a bug. Once a bug, it has been a system for weeks! It has been more deterministic and fun. You canât demonize a function based on labels to tell me I have fun the wrong way.
Again, I might not be the target audience but 600 hours of grind doesnât create engaging and fun gameplay loop.
Deterministic gear progression (not shower loot) does.
You telling me and others to stop playing a product and cheat when we deliver any ways of criticism is arrogant.
Depends, for CoF? Better! Because CoF lacks the proper tools still to allow a smooth progression overall.
For MG? Devastating, and MG is already a plainly spoken shit-show. So it canât stay. By now I would argue EHG can just demolish MG and delete the whole thing, force everyone into CoF and it would be better then the current state.
And thatâs coming from a MG player which loves trading and everything related to it.
Thatâs not a âof courseâ answer to be given.
A thoughtless person puts their needs before others, because we always want to fulfill our need, right? Nothing against that, absolutely understandable.
A thoughtful person takes the whole picture into consideration as much as is allowed in their current state, taking in new information coming from others - itâs a form of feedback after all - and including that to make a solution which comes as close to the initial one without negatively impacting those people.
Why? Because then you get more people happy and more people behind your plans. Itâs called altruistic egoism to behave in this way, doing things in a way others profit since it hence comes full circle back to you.
And as a person in a social environment itâs not your task to worry about solely yourself, itâs your task to take the needs of the social environment into consideration as well⌠otherwise you get crap-shows like we see world-wide happening repeatedly persisting to happen.
Two things: First, 100% agreed on the deterministic aspect. Itâs a important aspect for perception and the whole genre and should be properly imlemented. Itâs ânot thereâ yet but vastly better then in 0.9 and vastly better then in 1.0 or 1.1. So itâs a forward direction. Take it as a win.
The second thing: If you think that so called âforever gamesâ are solely for unemplyed people and streamers then youâve got a major issue with the genre itself. Those games are about the enjoyment of the progress, not about distinctly reaching the end-point. The end-point is purely a goal-marker.
If you canât enjoy the process itself then I recommend re-evaluating your method of enjoyment and hence leaning into games which fulfill that in a better way. As recommendations I can give you Chronicon, Victor Fran, Grim Dawn, D3 and D4 in that case. Those are far more goal-oriented then process-oriented games. Last Epoch always was process oriented, this is showcased by the very wonky progression steps in end-game with uber-aberroth, the endless corruption system and also the potentially endless item grind (which is a detriment for progression perception though, so changes are to be expected over time).
Oh, Iâm not telling you you have fun the wrong way. Iâm telling you youâre barking at the wrong tree.
Games have destinctive design choices made⌠and plainly spoken to demand things fully diverting from those design choices (like trivializing item acquisition in a game based on very long-term item acquisition through the base systems) is simply not helpful. If you find out that a core design philosophy isnât aligning with your enjoyment you leave and search for something fitting better. If other aspects make up for it you stay.
What you donât do is demand changing a core aspect to make it more enjoyable for you at the cost of everyone here for 5+ years which have supported and funded this product because of said design philosophy.
EHG already failed with the mastery respec by breaking their core philosophies. Undermining themselves even further would only lead to them self-destructing. Who can trust a product which can change the whole perception of it in-between singular updates and nobody knows what their actual direction is? Itâs a prime reason as to why many many game developers over the course of the years failed, and success despite not adhering to your philosophies is more rare then otherwise.
Progression in LE is done in a weekend, outside of uber-aberroth, non-speedrunning.
A player knowing the game does progress from Level 1 to Aberroth in sub 20 hours.
Beyond is another topic, but which goal? Uber-abby? Which 0,01% of the playerbase have killed? That would be laughable to see as a ânormal goalâ, thatâs aspirational.
Most people here are talking about rare uniques, but even common uniques are now massively nerfed. I imprinted a common unique chestpiece. I now get a bunch of random other unique chestpieces. The node might as well say âif you imprint a unique here you will get random uniques of that item slotâ. No one imprints a chestpiece going âany chestpiece will doâ. No more target farming any uniques any longer with imprints.
It also depends on the amount of LP on said unique, or the amount of former LP for legendaries. So a 3 LP unique will be vastly more rare and hence drop less often then a non-LP unique of the same type.
And it causes uniques to drop less often then rare items put inside it. As it also causes exalted items which are similar to drop less often then rare items put inside.
Thatâs the originally stated description.
In total in causes the input item to drop more often then it would naturally though.
What?? People were able to hoard Red Rings simply by imprinting one on the tree?
How can you call this a nerf? Wtf⌠it was clearly a bug⌠do you how rare a Red Ring is?
Nahh, sorry, but asking for bugged things to stay bugged should have no place in these forums.
Lets just not start the whole Ballista Radius drama again.
You could target farm any unique that you got a copy of. The same goes for common uniques that you want to keep farming for more shots at LP/nemesis/large roll ranges.
Now you canât target farm ANY unique. Rare or common. I used it target farm a whole bunch of Devotion amulets (because I was playing smite). I then later used it to target farm a whole bunch of Sunwreaths because I wanted a 3LP one for another build. It was great. Neither of those are rare items, but now Iâm flooded with a bunch of junk uniques I donât care about.
Was it powerful and could be used heavily for rare items? Yeah. But any damage to merchants guild is already done if thatâs your concern. Itâs been around and well known for a long time. If they wanted to change it, they should have either done it (1) very soon or (2) wait until next league.
