LP system feedback

My thoughts on the LP system as requested by @Reimerh

Even though the Legendary system adds a ton of depth and customization to builds, engaging with the system often feels bad thanks to multiple layers of RNG and lack of progression. I’m not hoping for Legendaries to be easy to get, but instead fun to get.

While almost no builds need any Legendaries, as a player who wants to minmax and achieve close to BIS items, it can feel nearly impossible to get a Legendary you want, no matter how much time you spend grinding, even when you have reasonable expectations for the items. There has to be randomness in the LP crafting system, but at the moment it feels like there is too many layers of RNG and no progression or way to work towards Legendaries. Theoretically, the current LP system adds infinite replayability, but in actuality it feels that when gearing a character, a plateau is reached very quickly and progression basically stops when the LP grind phase begins.

The rarer the item is to drop and get with LP, the worse the system will also feel. Missing a craft on a valuable item that you spent a lot of hours grinding for and having nothing to show for that grind is an extremely bad feeling. Your progression is always reset back to zero. Even when you finally get the LP craft you want, it’s more of a relief than something you get excited for.

Also, since LP items are completely luck based, the better player does not really get rewarded for being skilled in the game. A lucky newer player might have some Legendaries that the veteran player doesn’t even expect to get at all. I would rather grind for more hours knowing that I can eventually get what I want than get the same item with luck and less grind.

Of course even if you miss the LP craft, the result is better than a plain Unique. But that doesn’t satisfy a player such as myself who has a specific goal in mind for the Legendary to power up my character.

LP & Monolith/Corruption

The “feelbad” of the LP system also ties in to the current gear acquisition methods, which for most LP uniques is doing Monolith. I think grinding for LP boss uniques is fine and enjoyable, since you can target farm the boss, feeling more deterministic.

The problematic LP items are everything else, items that you get from either unique reward echoes or as a random drop from slain enemies. As doing echoes can be quite “autopilot” because of the low difficulty, since corruption doesn’t scale gear drops enough, for efficient farming the player will be doing easy content as fast as possible. The end result is that LP farming is like playing slots, you are doing the same easy task over and over, hoping to eventually get lucky.

Making corruption meaningful would help immensely with this. For example, tiers of corruption where the corruption itself is the difficulty instead of modifiers, and tying drops to difficulty. Ideally, the hardest content should be the best place to grind for items, even if it takes more time to clear. Being rewarded for completing challenging content is one of the best feelings.

LP cap

Another thing on the LP system that could use improvement is the maximum LP of items. Currently you can “technically” get anything with 4LP, even the rarest items, but that is never going to happen. LP is already basically “soft capped”, but I would add an actual LP cap for all items. The tooltip could have for example, “2/2 Legendary Potential” for an item that has the maximum 2LP that’s available on that item. Of course 4LP would still exist for some items. This way all players, new and old, would know exactly how much LP you can expect to get.

2 Likes

Hmmm after all the hours I played LE only the rng on top of rng on top of rng with some rng on top keeps the game afloat. If they change itemsiation and the mindnumbing ammount of rng they have right now the game would be even easier and the non existend content would be chewed up even further.

I’m not the biggest fan of the current state of the game for a lot of reasons but if they make itemisation easier a very big timesink will just be blown out of the water and I don’t think the game can handle this right now.

Unfortunately nothing new in your post that I can see/recall.

Pretty much the same as has been discussed here on the forum regarding LP / Legendaries and the struggle to craft them with the RNG of the unique drop, RNG of LP, RNG of the exalted drop and RNG of the crafting process.

No one likes RNG on RNG on RNG but its the nature of the genre. I have been very frustated by this exact concern - I farmed for Apathys Maw killing Orobyss 200+ times (and resetting timelines 200+ times) to eventually get a 4LP - but I wouldnt want it to be reduced - especially in regard to high LP Legendaries - purely because they are the end-game BiS only reason for playing items.

A lot of people will argue for deterministic approaches that reward time / effort spent to get these kinds of items in a guaranteed way and ensure character progress during playsessions, but I disagree - even if lady luck never smiles at me and I am never able to get these items - they need to be the hardest thing to do in the game.

Without a lot more content of exponentially higher difficulty, there would be nothing else to do in LE.

Imagine they introduce content where you need 2LP+ gear at least andneed to have all exalted gear. With the itemisation in place that would be terrible ^^.

To be honest, I wouldnt actually mind that too much.

I have zero problem with games that have things to aspire to or bosses that are so hard that only 5% of the player base ever beat them or gear that is so rare, only 1% of players ever find it. Sure I may never be one of those players, but I like that the challenge and reward exist.

I’ll never be rich enough to own a Bugatti Chiron but I LOVE that they exist in the world and dont envy those that can afford them.

If you have to play 20h/day in a season to have a chance to get the needed drops each season I would mind it very much because it’ll be dead content and a waste of time from my point of view. Most likely a big part of the playerbase will be mad if there is content hidden behind a 800h grindfest.

I would love to get overtuned content at the start of the season (I just throw numbers arround here) where enemys ind dungeons and monoliths start out with a 200% hp and damage modifier that gets reduced over time to get some achivement but said content will never interfeer with people who want to play the game but are interrupted 30 minutes after starting up the PC because family, friends, work or whatever is more important to them then gaming ^^.

Having content you know you’ll never have a chance of playing renders a huge part of the game (mentaly :smiley: ) to be not there for you. To pick up your piece:

You can brrrr from A to B faster with your Chiron but you’ll come to the same place a bit later if you use a Porsche 911 or a Beetle or a bicycle. There is no “Only Chirons can drive here!” road out there.

I will attempt to identify your sarcasm as best I can so forgive me if I miss something intended.

Depends on how you play and how the devs balance things - if they feel that they want their game to have an uber BiS challenge behind an 800h grind then so be it - so long as a non uber BiS alternative item is still attainable behind some sort of more generally acceptable timeframe.

I play a game called Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup - a Rogue lite. I have played hundreds of hours so far and gotten less than a single handful of the best items (which you cannot farm for) and never finished it. I play it because its hard and has a lot of RNG - not impossible but incredibly hard with “you are dead” start again punishments. Sometimes I get to the final levels after hours of play only to get my arse kicked by some RNG roll and I rage quit for a few days but I always try again. I like it because its hard and I may never have the patience to beat it - especially on the harder chars but I lke it and am entertained… I dont consider it a waste even though most times I make no progress at all or any progress I did make is negated by having no save and being forced to restart.

I never play seasons because I refuse to let a game or game developers dictate when I can or cannot play a game. If they gate things behind seasons then I simply wait for whatever was gated to become part of the non-season mode and go after it if I want to. If its never ungated then I literally ignore it. I have a very strange attitude to games which I have learnt over time is not the norm. If they dont entertain me then I just move on.

I like that. Actually quite fun. Some clever bastard would probably find a way to cheese it but hey who would care. Honestly though, it does just sound like the devs rebalancing content over a period of time to allow more players to enjoy it.

This is where I am weird - I dont mind that at all. Its like an MMO with an entire part of the world I couldnt be bothered with cause I am having fun making dwarven battle axes for noobs. :wink:

You may have missed my analogy /metaphor or whatever you want to call it - For me its the existance of the Chiron (*or uber BiS legendary) that I love. The fact that I have to still drive my Bug (decent item) to the corner cafe isnt in question. Nor is the fact that I may never have a Chiron. Just to know its in the world appeals to me.

Yes, as I said, I am weird :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

1 Like

Look how mad people get if you want worthwhile group content. Having to grind an exorbitant amount of time hits the same notch from my point of view. Then again this is all speculative and not realy worth thinking about ^^.

Right now LP stuff isn’t needed what makes it forgiving. I always get mad when i see my LP items with the worst possible rolls that could’ve happened. I think I’ll go bonkers if I ever have the same outcome on a good rolled unique with a high ammount of LP. RNG in this game feels to me like a punishment because what is randomised is a pain.

Okay if you don’t play seasons prolonged grinds are NP but for seasonal play they are cancer.

That’s the only intention, have some fun while in the state everyone think is boring af and get a ingame achivement so nothing that make steam achivers go mad because they are forced to play in a certain speed or game mode. Should be just for the lulz.

Yeah if I only talk about stuff that makes me upset I’ll only talk about trading (what is solved for me by ressonence) or the terrible fluidity of the game because it playes like a damaged flipbook compared to other games of the same genre.

No I don’t I just used your analogy to show you my point of view. Again as an example: My Chiron is 8+ player content that offers the best loot and people go craycray if there is content and they need to interact with other people. I just want to point ot that one mans trash is another mans trasure and the opposite :slight_smile: . What we trasure might be most likely trash for a lot of people and most likely ruin the game for the average person with job, family, pets and other hobbys ^^.

I can play 20h/day if I want to so I don’t care and give the state of the game and the ammount of content prolonged grind might be the best to keep people playing untill they realise what is happening ^^. It’s always about the target audience of the game… running a bad luck streak Monolith for the 78th time because you still haven’t gotten the item you “target farm” for isn’t for anyone. Not becaue of the time investment but because of the little ammount of diversity and the mindnumbingness of repetition.

In my oppinion there is a lot of stuff EHG needs to look into and make it better because right now I can’t see LE getting a worthwhile market share.

Oh boy now I jumped from A to G to Z argh ^^. Sorry for the rambling but at the end of the day I think EHG should always aim for the middle of the player spectrum instead of people with weird taste or to much time at hand :stuck_out_tongue: .

1 Like

What I will NEVER understand is why to make this originally creative system so bad.

The rarer the item the lower the chance of getting LP on it. AND then there is still a 3 in 4 chance that you brick it and all of this together makes it unbelievable difficult to get the desired item.

I’m not so sure about the “3 in 4 chance” to brick the item. The best route to ensure this doesn’t happen is to make sure that you have all affixes that you are willing to accept on the new legendary. This isn’t exactly easy but it is the best way to ensure the item is still very usable.

Yeah I mean but for most builds if you min max you need very specific affixes and although you are right you mostöy want 1 affix obly and then there is a 3 in 4 chance to brick it.

I have to disagree with OP. It’s a good thing that magic find doesn’t scale as strong as the corruption levels. Because if it would scale then everyone would feel compelled to farm at 800+ corruption, with the same 3-5 builds everyone else is playing.

Currently there is a “soft cap” around 200-300 corruption that many builds can achieve even without any Legendary crafted items. This is good, because it creates a lot of build diversity and “viableness”. At the same time it leaves some room open for people who love a build and want to max it out to the extreme with a few 2LP or more Legendaries to get much higher corruption. But it’ an optional progression, and that’ very important.

TLDR: It’s good that the “optimal” farming ground does not require very rare loot.

1 Like

So cap the LP gain at a more reasonable level of corruption. Corruption should improve LP gain in some way, and that doesn’t have to make people compelled to do ridiculous amounts of corruption if it’s implemented well.

So you want to take a perfect exalted item, with 4 T5+ desired prefixes, and then basically trash it to get a single one (or 2) affixed on a unique item? And you see nothing wrong with that process? Most people would be giddy to find a perfect T20 rare, and actually use it…but you’re wanting to trash an exalted, without any guarantee you’ll even get the T6+ affix crafted onto your unique.

Yeah, because the next time I find a unicorn in the wild, I’m going to slaughter it, on the off-chance I can use its hooves to make some glue…

I’m a little more positive than that wrt market share long term, but 100% agree that there is a lot that needs to be addressed - even if its just aiming for the bulk of a bell curve of potential users.

No problem, we hijacked this thread anyway. :wink:

That wasn’t my point. I was simply pointing out that there are ways to not have a 75% chance to essentially brick your LP item. The thought is that you take an exalted item that has four affixes that you can live with rather than one that only has one affix that you want and the other three are ones you consider garbage and therefore are gambling on getting the one affix on that item to you LP item.

I totally agree, for me it doesnt make any sense, that LP potential doesnt increase wit hcorruption.

It kinda does, you’re more likely to drop a higher LP unique on higher corruption because you’re dropping more uniques so you have more “pulls of the lever” to get a unique with LP. But it’s not like you have to be above x00 corruption to get 4lp & if you’re above that threshold then you can’t get LP less than Y.

Of course this is true BUT the effect of this is like so small that it feels the chance of winning the lottery in real life is higher.

And even if you get a very rare unique which is, …very rare… then the chance of getting it with LP is lower than for common uniques and THEN its a small chance you get the right affix on the uniques. All in all the chance for successfully getting the desired rare unique with the specific affix is extremely low.

Guess you can say whatever you want here, for me this is just bad and I will never understand why its this way.

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.