i didnt realize gatekeeping is a perjorative. gate keeping is simply the act of putting up fences to block people from entry.
simple as that.
cost and punishment? its always debatable. some people want it easier some prefer it harder. my question to you would be, what do YOU LOSE if this is implemented?
for me i lose nothing. in fact it would help me convince more of my friends to play LE. if people wanted a harder game they have POE.
Amd yet it’s only ever used in a perjorative manner. That the people doing the gatekeeping are somehow bad or deliberately trying to be evil elitists & prevent the noble masses from enjoying a thing.
That llama8 person seems to take this game a bit too seriously. This is a hobby; people play it for fun, except maybe in their case.
It is, but “fun” is different for different people. Some people enjoy playing autoclickers/afk games, some enjoy Souls-likes, there are different styles of games & games with different levels of challenge for a reason. I personally think that the level of challenge and punishment for failure is in a reasonable place (excluding the campaign which I think is too easy & could do with a Veteran-like optional difficulty like in GD).
LE is already very lax/light on the punishment for failure, there’s no xp loss, your items don’t get damaged, you don’t drop your gear & have to do naked corpse runs (always a joy in Valheim when some Fulings gank you). I can accept that it might be nice to have some additional portals in empowered monos perhaps, like in PoE, but also, maybe not?
Compared to some, yes, but compared to others, absolutely not! Ive just never really been one to appreciate participation medals being given. If all you want to do is mindlessly kill mobs & get loot, normal monos or low corruption is fine for that.
Agree with the proportional-loss-of-time point. There is a solution to this. Within a couple of minutes and a small investment in resources, you can retry the boss fight.
I wasn’t aware of this feature for some time, but once I discovered it, the penalty doesn’t bother me anymore.
Peace.
i would say he is passionate for the game. as we all are. i tend to disagree with other people and disagree with him too.
but its all fine. as long as everyone understands the difference of opinions and statements.
opinions can be different and can form discussions and disagreements but thats fine.
its annoying at times but is fine.
anyway thats what forums are for. to discuss on how we feel. everything is a slider.
how hard is too hard. how punishing is too punishing. i have said what i needed, which is to voice my support towards OP.
llama has done his part by saying he disagrees and why he disagrees.
theres nothing much to be done on the topic moving forward. coz its all subjective from here on out
I like this idea. It also occurs to me that using the glyphs is similar in that you invest a resource to curb the penalty.
Exactly. I’m level 95 now and I have about 45 glyphs. It takes about 3-4 of them to retry a boss fight. I find more glyphs than I consume. Unless you die 10 times in a row to the same boss, you should be fine. Try it out and let us know if this feature makes the game more enjoyable for you.
We will lose more of the feeling, that some things in this game actually matter and you can’t or shouldn’t brainlessly walk through the game carelessly and have no consequences for anything.
We can take this to the extreme and say, why do we not get to level 100 and 1000 corruption within a few minutes of gamepaly or one boss fight?
You know there is a spectrum and its not always 100% or 0% and right now where LE is on the spectrum of difficulty and consequences I like it, evne though it could be a bit more difficult/have more consequences.
I will “LOSE” nothing directly, but the game I like to play will shift more towards the side of the spectrum I less enjoy.
There are countless of thigns that in conjunction will put the game on this spectrum and while one singular thing will not make or break the game for me personally, this is one of the slippery slopes, where we gradually could move towards a direction I enjoy less.
Why is this happening over and over again in all kinds of debates? People not accepting or understanding that some changes will impact others experience of games, even if they don’t understand or comprehand that.
Some people in here clearly stated why and how they like or don’t like certai nthings but this whole argumentation of “but its doesn’t affect you if XYZ changes” makes you look ignorant to the fact that peopel stated why they feel this way.
I love PoE, but for different reasons. I don’t want LE to become PoE, yet I like that LE is a bit more on this difficulty/consequence spectrum than Grim Dawn or Diablo.
I am also not advocating to make LE actively harder right now, but to keep it how it is.
personally i feel poe1 has too high a barrier for entry. farm 4 fragments, try the boss. dont know the mechanics and die to a one shot. its always better to check a YT vid before engaging a boss in poe. its also good to go into tough boss encounters at 0% xp on poe.
but in contrast to that. i actually prefer poe2 mace combat. its slow and deliberate. it has exactly all the impact and weight that a deliberate gameplay style should feel.
i m not gonna pretend that LE or POE1 is a game where players dont play brainlessly. the only true challenge is finding all the correct gear to outdps and outlast enemies.
look at the various top builds rightnow. most of them just literally face tank or melt uber abby.
EDIT: but i will say it still is more skill based than POE. i can actually dance around bosses in LE so i can do some difficult encounters by playing properly.
Personally, I would lose any incentive to make a better build. Rather than assess if my build is in a spot where it can actually handle the boss, I would just go in, die 20 times and know that there are no real consequences and I would eventually get it anyway, so why bother trying to do it the right way?
It would make it so that bosses no longer give rewards, because given enough time you will always eventually get it without having to actively work towards it like you do now.
ah so you need punishment and lose something in order to feel like its worth your time.
for some people losing the time that we spent on each attempt is punishment.
i play monster hunter, sometimes i die. losing the gold and supplies mean nothing as they are plentiful. but the time i spent. its something i would avoid wasting in future runs.
you talk as tho dying to a boss 20 times in a row in a d-like as tho its no big deal. the reality is, if the combination of your skills and gear is not enough. 30-50 times its still not enough. you will just keep dying. if you feel your time wasted is not good enough punishment i guess you really do need a harder game.
we do have a harder version of that.
hardcore
A consequence should not be equated with a punishment.
Many people need to feel like their choices matter. It makes victory feel better than knowing it’d just happen anyway.
Given the choice of spending 30 minutes dying to a boss and eventually be able to kill him for his rewards or spending a few hours to grow in power to kill him without dying, it takes a lot less time to do the first.
Which means that, given that there are no penalties, the most efficient way to play the game will be to grow until you’re just strong enough that you can eventually do it and then kill the boss 1 out of 20 times, rather than actually making sure you can.
Consequences have nothing to do with difficulty.
Also hardcore is not more difficult.
And we can go back to my post above. Things like this can always be on a spectrum. In terms of dying and forcing a boss regardless of death’s, hardcore is on one extreme of the spectrum.
I don’t like hardcore, I like to experiment with weird stuff, that not always work out. And when doing certain activities, such as boss fights, it feels good if you do them flawlessly without dying, because you know there are consequences if you do die.
This already is very marginal, because the death penalty already is very low in LE, but if we remove it or make it even less impactful it takes away that little bit.
For something to feel good or feel a bit more accomplishing, the other outcomes should “be bad”.
This is similar to some affixes or other things. For something to be good or feel good, there needs to be bad things
Hardcore isn’t harder, it’s just more punishing.
There needs to be consequences, certainly.
I mean, I don’t think it’s quite accurate to say that he’s just saying his piece. He’s out here accusing people of wanting participation trophies (among other things) for not not wanting to lose as much progress on dying to a boss.
passion =/= condescension
It is, because that is a sincerely held belief. It does honestly feel to me that you want to nerf the consequences of failure. How many stacks do you loose on dieing? Do you lose all of the stacks like it was in the past? No, you lose one singular stack which you can get back by killing the timeline boss once.
It should also be noted that this penalty actually makes sense. If you’re having difficulty killing the shade, then you’re likely also not ready for a big corruption jump.
are we talking about the same game? you do realize this is not a game where we have unlimited portals that we can chip a bosses health, die, port back in and repeat.
hardcore is not as hard but it has “harder” punishments. i do agree with what you mention about spectrum.
i m not going to pretend that softcore players are elite players that want to be punished in multitudes of ways. most of us arent. and the ones complaining in this forum like OP are definitely rare.
mainly because casuals/weaker players dont go on forums. we are the outliers.
to me its all about fun. i m too old to care about being an elitist gamer. i dont touch hardcore as i dont see the need to punish myself. i also didnt touch the reset league. i m playing on legacy. i dont see the need to punish myself by refarming everything all over again. bottom line is i m having fun with all these “ease of access”.
the less punishing the game is, the less chance i get frustrated and rage quit. i rarely ever lose my temper in this game. in contrast, i realized i have legit temper issues while playing poe lol.
also when talking about punishment
do you guys realize that many woven echoes do not “disappear”? you get to run them again if you failed.
i love it. i m not heavily punished for failure. what it does is make me play even more.
when players have fun, they will want to be stronger to challenge harder content. its a climb.