Would that be pronounced like pneumonia?
DirePneguin! I kinda like it…
And no, I didn’t call you a hypocrite, I called your stance a bit disingenuous. But you like making things up, and deflecting (strawman, moving goalposts, etc), so you do you. I’m sure Llama is thoroughly enjoying your REEEEEEE-laden rants about my responses to you. Which is why I shall continue, for the sake of his enjoyment…because Llama is a straight-shooter.
And a bit of a troll from time to time/when the moid/boredom strikes me. He’ll realise soon enough when he’s been here longer. Apparently he’s been a member since March 21! Maybe he’s just not been paying attention. Or, heaven forbid(!), I’m actually not that important… 
nah…
not a clue, probably but there’s doom & gloom predictions about most things, so that’s quite a low bar IMO.
You feel like letting me know where I said that?
You, er, might want to re-read what I wrote then… 
You should totally ask EHG if they could change your name.
Before that.
Not made up, you very clearly did strawman what I was saying, multiple times.
The goalpost moving thing was actually not brought up by me originally, it just happened to fit lol.
I’m the one giving actual points and examples relevant to the topic far more often. Your entire post here has nothing to do with the actual topic of the thread.
You said the amount of people who had friction with this system is “totally not 50%”, and going by what you’ve been arguing I’m pretty sure you were implying the amount is under 50%, not over. I gave the only evidence I had of any %, which was over, so why don’t you back up your “totally not 50%”?
Oh I see your rhetorical question. I mean the answer is obviously no, for the numerous reasons provided, but you saying you were asking is still replying to me talking about penguin and makes no sense.
I mean it surely does turn people away from the game, whether that’s a large enough amount to matter is another question.
The fact that the arguments against some feedback are now just ‘well your using emotion!’ is ridiculous. People seriously trying to debate class peoples opinions, lmfao
Holy, moly.
Every time I come here and start to read how people justify attacking or defending a thread.
Nobody is asking you to do so, no do you are obliged to defend very poor early game developer decisions. People do not need to listen to emotion, but a logical solution.
Why removing points is better early game when a new player doesn’t like a certain skill but invested in it?
To make him feel unwelcomed, delete char, read a build guide and kill his first playthru?
If you try to copy something like PoE - Don’t, the content here is 1/50, the quality also. Can say the same for other games but the ratio will be a bit lower. And in general aren’t devs tired of copying stuff? Genre is about iteration, not about copy-pasting.
Yeah, if you want realistic view why people can’t stay for long, boredom and unfriendly game desing is one of those. The game is easy and at the same time unbalanced to f. Let’s not discuss bugs, even tho this respec feels like one lol, 
Thats fine, nothing just another one in the gigantic list.
PS. There is no need to doompost, the game’s online activity speaks enough. While most of you wait for 1.0, remember that neither the game so far is getting better, nor people more interested.
So from what you’re saying we shouldn’t provide feedback that the elitist and gatekeepers in this forums don’t agree with?
So if this is a beta, early access game it can’t be changed to something better thanks to feedback?
How grand. Sorry, not every point is felt the same.
Sounds like a pretty subjective way of looking at it. Why is your desire/opinion better than that of those elitist gatekeepers? Sounds to me like you’re attaching that elitist label to the wrong end of the conversation…sometimes not changing things is better.
Feel free to think however you want. Facts and reality speak louder than words. The feedback made the game what it is so far. If you think it is a very good game that keeps the average person occupied for more than a week, raise your hand.
Reality check it doesn’t. For that to change, devs should stop catering the 0.1%, aka the 20 remaining folks on the forums.
Instead they can start taking the game in to the next level, making it more friendly and bug free. Then add sufficient end-game activities.
Ok. So I touched a raw wound for some. How you interpret my views is entirely on you and I can assure you, I lose zero sleep about being called toxic and people falsely interpretting my comments as telling people to shut up. Thats on you - I have nothing to do with how your brain is wired. I will not apologise.
In general Feedback is great and will always be so but its the assumptions, attitudes and perspective of people making feedback that are not always good imo.
What irks me here is that people nowadays seem to think that their feedback is more valuable than a creators view on their own product or output. Like Picasso would rip up and redo a painting because someone didnt like the colour of a background. Rubbish.
Feedback today is also provided in very selfish self centred perspective where somehow someones opinion on a product feature is negative so anyone elses positive view of the same feature is immediately unacceptable and is attributed to being a shill. In exactly the same way that someone may not agree with a political, religious or gender view - you are immediately viewed as a pariah for having an alternative view or perspective.
People seem to assume that because they are provided with a mechanism for feedback they are now entitled and have some sort of power over anything, like they somehow now have the permission to demand change when they have zero personal risk involved.
And yes, provide your feedback. If it is ignored and you cannot move past it, then this is a GAME… not real life… move on.
After saying all this, who are you to judge if one’s feedback is more valuable or not?
This thread is already worth locking, because you folks can’t seem to accept normal feedback of people that have legit complains. Nobody is complaining to you or suggesting something to you. If you feel entitled to answer that is your problem as well.
Seems being too regular here gives you the rights to answer and judge every topic, are you a developer?
This is absolutely worth locking after your rant on how people should provide feedback.
After threads like these, devs will get even less in here. Which is probably fine for them in general. Speaks enough for the community.
Picasso died in poverty. Just FYI you picked a great example 
Feedback might get ignored. It might also get taken into account - you don’t know that. This is the point of feedback - share your opinion, vent your frustration with problems and suggest how they can be fixed. Sure, you might get ignored but that is fine. EHG already changed their stance on trading once as an example.
But coming to the feedback forum with a statement that amounts to feedback is meaningless at best, offensive at worst. The entire idea of this subforum is to share ideas on how to improve the game. And i stand firmly by the opinion that penalizing respec in the early game is a bad decision that has to be changed.
So I’ve written so much but scrolling down just made me delete the whole post and quotes and whatnot. Can somone close this thread? This is like beating a dead horse and without dev input this thing will go down the drain even more.
Except in this case:
Only because I haven’t seen it mentioned yet, but here are some recent developer responses concerning this subject:
Judd Cobler, founder and CEO of EHG and LE Game Director, talks about how the respeccing works in LE and the philosophy behind this decision (from 14:50 to 16:55 of the video):
Trasochi, principal game designer and lead developer, provides a similar answer to Judd’s on the LE Discord:
Personally, I’m not advocating for or against EHG’s stance on this. However, I can see how the friction of the system, especially for new players and casuals, can be a detriment to ones overall enjoyment of the game, and even more so in the early stages of a playthrough.
Nah just lock this thread, this persons just turnign it into their personal ‘holier than thou’ delusion shit. Comparing feedback to politics, religion, and gender tells everyone enough. This has run its course. Wish people would remember its a game.
All I can think about when perusing this thread: Duty Calls
Thanks for the entertainment y’all.
It’s pretty much all talking about endgame there though. The one time he mentions “early levels” he says they don’t want people to feel locked in to a decision, but respeccing early is far more punishing than respeccing late. If I fully respec all my skills late I can have them maxed in 2-3 monos that takes me like 10 minutes, and I won’t really notice any power loss after the first mono because my skills at 17-19 are going to be only marginally weaker than 20. But a skill at level 3 instead of 7 or 5 instead of 10 is significantly weaker when you respec early, and it takes longer for those to catch back up, and you definitely notice the power loss more.
Don’t worry, “we” aren’t the only ones…
He’s not & never said he did. Maybe you should re-read his post. “winky smiley face”
You get bonus points for linking to xkcd with a more multiplier for that particular one… 
He didn’t judge specific feedback, but he basically said giving feedback as a whole is pointless and if you don’t like something about the game your only options are to deal with it, or quit playing the game. Essentially judging all feedback to be valueless. Which is kind of a stupid take to post in a feedback forum.
If that’s what you took from his post (especially the second & final paragraphs), that’s entirely up to you, but that’s neither what he said nor meant.
No, what he said was:
For someone who was sog indignant about people either not reading their posts, (deliberately) misreading them or just plain not having the reading skills to read their posts, I really thought you’d read his comment & think about it a bit more closely.
Vapourfire agrees that you should provide feedback on things that you’re not happy with regardless of whether anyone else agrees or disagrees with you, if it’s given in good faith, (which I assume yours is) then it’s a useful data point for the devs. The next bit is the conditional statement that you appear to not have understood - if the devs “ignore” (or don’t action or whatever) your feedback and you can’t get past that (“that” referring to your feedback being ignored/not actioned), then your options basically boil down to moving on. He never at any point said that all/any feedback is pointless & that if you don’t like a thing then you either ignore the thing you don’t like or GTFO.
Does that help explain his stance on that particular bit? I’m trying not to be a dick about it.
Which is why he didn’t say that. He was bemoaning the apparent belief that “our” feedback is superior to the devs’ view on a thing (not entirely sure I agree on that, IMO, it both is & isn’t, yes, I do have splinters from sitting on the fence this hard)
and
that sometimes feedback can be given in a very fragile way (ie, if people disagree with the feedback giver then it’s taken as a personal attack/affront)
and and
“feedback today” appears to be given in a selfish/self-centred manner/perspective, which I kinda get though being the pedantic delightful soul I am, IMO feedback is often given from a very personal point of view (which can be taken to be selfish/self-centred, especially if in combination with the point immediately above.