I am probably making something wrong, because I am currently at 1,5 million and it took a lot of time.
But anyways, you either leave things as they are (mastery locked out) or you make re-mastering easy enough. There’s no point in introducing such a feature and then locking it behind insane amounts of currency to be used, it would be a no-go for 90% of CoF casual players.
As I said I would be honestly more interested in being able to fast level alts via monoliths only instead of being able to respec masteries themselves at an insane cost. I mean, something like “adventure mode” in D3/4.
Sure, poor choice of words on my end. WASD was something we were initially told couldn’t happen and mastery re-spec was intentionally not planned on being implemented.
It’s totally true but between the 2 of them the easiest one to implement coding wise is of course the mastery respec because it does not require toons animations rework.
Pretty much, yes, or close enough. But I’m also not too fussed about whether I see them or not, I just have conceptual issues of if a thing is that unlikely to drop then why bother having it capable of dropping at all?
Yup, that’s my point exactly.
I personally don’t.
Yeah, I think the basic build-enabling gear (with bad stats/etc) should be relatively easy to get hold of
Yes, and for those which have the urge ‘to finish a game’ so to speak, going ‘the extra mile’ this deprives them of achieving that.
Which I mentioned regularly by now, it shouldn’t exist since there’s other options to handle it… so why haven’t they been used instead?
Like… a more flexible crafting system but more tiers.
A more flexible crafting system with more tiers and more slots for affixes to allow keeping the values closer together and reduce the serious impact of rare affixes compared to common ones?
It’s foundational design choices which led to that, they can be rather clearly seen by now… the question is only ‘What to do now with it?’ It’s rather important… but hard to solve. Basically what’s needed is a ‘Loot 2.0’ thing like D4 had, fixing the basic mistakes made to bring the existing system into a more coherent state. But that’s a lot of effort.
So the collector types are happy that there’s a thing that wouldn’t be a guaranteed drop if it had 1 chance every second for longer than the current life of the universe? The devs could just say that said thing exists but not code it & have the same effect.
My bad, I read you asking the question as saying something you weren’t saying. That is, as disagreeing that most items, and definitely build-defining items should have a modestly-reasonable chance of dropping in a season.
I don’t quite understand what you mean with that. Can you re-phrase it?
What I meant that the collectors have no realistic chance of ever acquiring said item. If you’re collecting MTG cards for example and you want a ‘Black Lotus’ from Alpha you can buy one. It costs a boatloads, but you can. It’s not unrealistic in price either to have the possibility to acquire it since it’s simply in a range that’s realistic to save towards.
But if you’re instead… say… a collector of properties… then acquiring the Berlin Airport for example will be kinda out of your hallpark (if it would even be for sale in the first place). It would cost billions, and that’s just not something people realistically acquire in their lifetime. You can buy outhouses though…
It’s just about the personal realistic line being set, and ‘longer playtime needed then humanity has existed for’ is kinda a unresolvable obstacle… heck, getting a Jacko in D4 with the 50k hours time investment when it came out was also something players - reasonably so - did complain about.
PoE already does push the limits with the Mirror of Kalandra, which is I think 7k hours of playtime commonly, but that’s a consumable, hence an item allowing you to make something specific happen, and barely ever needed in the first place. But we’re talking not about copying a pre-existing item but actually causing said item to exist in the first place, and that is a bit of a perception issue hence.
I am fine with 0,1% drop chance objects, as long as they are primarily cosmetic stuff or their power is not far above 10% drop chance objects.
The problem for me arise when these objects are so powerful they can make a build work or another build double+ the corruption it can clear (see D4 mythic uniques for example). Also because you basically have to have that luck every season (and seasons don’t last one year usually XD).
Yeah, something along these lines. I, as a private citizen/individual, am never going to be able to afford to buy Berlin Airport, but I am likely to be able to afford to buy a modest house somewhere.
You, as a completionist collector who wants to acquire 1 of each unique will likely be able to acquire a Ravenous Void, however if you wanted to acquire 1 of every 4LP unique, that’s “unlikely” given the drop cjance for a 4LP Ravenous Void is so low such that it was rolled for once every second of the past ~13 billion years of the universe’s life to date, it still probably wouldn’t have dropped yet (I want to say that the drop chance is something like 10^-19).
I just don’t see the point in things that rare being “possible”.
Exactly that, which is all fine! Miniscule differences aren’t an issue, overall possibility of access is. Especially so when those items have a perceived massive power level.
There’s a difference between getting a RNg based high-variability roll-range right (Like Omnis) or getting access to what is perceived as full-scale tiers of power level… which have those rolls on top still.
LP items fall partially under that, albeit it can be perceived as a roll-range too, so it’s kinda on the brink for me. But exalted items have a very high area simply which is ‘unusued’ for potential upgrades that could ever realistically drop. That just feels bad.
Seeing a goal in front and working towards it with extreme effort is fantastic, many won’t do it… but if possible and realistic to achieve people will do it. But if it’s simply a thing of utter impossibility when you’ll work a lifetime on it without ever achieving it? That’s breeding frustration.
Agreed.
I still think that for example uniques should be designed in a way that 4 LP drops are always realistically achievable, hence the base-unique power taken into mind to adhere to that power level.
These rare things are not vital to the game core of the game, but nontheless they add a lot of excitment to the possible top end, which is totally desired.
Everything is a balance and we don’t need hundreds of these types of items, but having some is great. The amount of items that are in the random drop pool needs soem sort of ratio and it is totally ok if the top x% of items are so rare that the average player will never see them. And yet they might randomly drop for that average player, because there is a chance.
Putting effort and ressource into things only a small portion of the playerbase will see is not wasted ressources. Not at all.
If EHG would only add items everybody will reasonably get, the item hunt would be boring and there would be a lot of chase items and WOW moments.
The whole legendary potetnial system introduced a lot of this “unreachable topend” to LE and I personally don’t udnerstand why people are so upset about it.
There is no harm in Orian’s Eye with or Ravenous Void with 4LP potentially dropping, why should the devs cut them from the loot pool? It does not hurt anybody them existing.
The variance of low and top end got a lot bigger with the introduction of the LP system, but it doesn’t really impact the players, other than the ones having the wrong mindset about them existing.
I don’t think we need many more, but I still do think we need a couple more of these very rare chase items.
tbh having thought about the system a lot, I think the system as a whole has simply not accomplished its goal.
4lp rav is a very specific thing, but ive seen someone in live wearing 2lp rav, and I thin k ive even seen 3lp.
This “heat death of the universe” items are not as rare as people make them out to be imo. lots of items drop lol.
My issue is the system seemed to be originally pitched as a way to allow low level items to get affixes so their unique effects could be used in end game. We see the opposite happen on end game builds.
Where items with good generic stats and middling level LPL get purchased in MG as 3 or 4lp, and essentially just become “Exalted +” items where they dont even use the unique effect on the item. Non bleed builds should never be running blood of exile, it either needs to have its stats trimmed, or its LPL made horrendous. its a strong ass pair of boots for bleed, it does not need a even remotely average or rare chance for 2lp because it isnt a leveling item that needs help to stay useful, it has good stats, top movement speed, and powerful unique stats.
LP was a mistake and has made end game gearing extremely boring imo, I hate looking at the leaderboard characters seeing 3/4 lp nonsense items on them.
people say “well 3lp is so rare” its really not imo, especially on certain items, i think they need to make high level LP more rare frankly.
I disagree with the LP system being a mistake. I think it does exactly what it should do, make more common/less powerful items worthwhile in endgame. (While making them relatively rare, at least the ones that have high LP, rare enough so that it is fair hwo strong they can be)
But I would say a lot of the Uniques are not “unique” enough and are just used as stat sticks in conjunction with those high tiered affixes thrown on top of them.
I thinl “Legendary Items” as a concept need somethign rivaling them. Right now the only thing coems close to that are Exalted Items on extremely good and desired bases that no Uniques can offer and Set Items, but those are very weak and only for buidls that really need the set bonus.
We don’t know all the details about the new crafting in 1.2, but there are hints that set items get something.
And if this something would be rivaling Legendaries it would be a step in the right direction.
Really? So if the devs created a supremely powerful item that was, to all intents & purposes, never going to drop, would that “add a lot of excitement”? If the item is that unlikely to drop it might as well not exist. You might as well get excited about D3 loot (or whatever) while playing LE.
But where’s the line where it tips over to wasted effort?
But it also doesn’t benefit anyone that they, allegedly, do exist.
They kinda are. There’s hyperbole & then there’s maths. If an item has a 1 in 10^17 chance of dropping, then that’s a similar number of seconds since the big bang (~13.8 billion years) & I think a 4LP Ravs was 1 in 10^19, so 100 times longer than that. That’s why I refer to the age of the universe, not because hyperbole.
When these super rare items are random drops and you don’t need or can “target farm” them, yes they do add an additionak layer of possible loot, which is exciting. Just the chance of having somethign drop on top of your more “regualr drops” is something that makes a loot driven game better.
The line is: Having a good balance of different kind of items. If 99 out of 100 items are this rare, that would be aweful.
But having every 100th item be this rare is fine. Right now we have ~320 Unqiue items, a lot of them are not random drops, but we have 3 supe rare random drops (Red Ring, Orian’s Eye and Ravenous Void). I think that is a decent ratio.
Also the problem here is base drop chance vs. high LP chance, this is a sim ilar, but yet different discussion to be had.
In MG it does benefit everybody, even if you are not using these items yourself, they would be accessible for you if you really want.
For CoF they are neglectable for the most part, at least high LP ones. But with the current target farmign and drop rates I think all of the 3 above mentioned items are reasonable to farm in CoF without LP within 20-50 hours (of endgame).
Ravenous void has about the same chance to drop as a red ring. But the LP tiers aren’t linear.
-1LP has a 4% chance. That means that you should expect to see one every 25 ravenous that drop. This isn’t that rare, especially if you consider a playerbase of 100k+.
-2LP has a 0.02% chance (2e-2). Again, it’s harder to get, but it should not be that much rarer. You’ll see one every 500 ravenous drops.
-3LP has a 0.00002% chance (2e-5). This is already an order of magnitude higher than the previous difference. You’ll see one every 50k ravenous drops. This is extremely unlikely to ever happen, but it’s still in the realm of the possible.
-4LP has a 0.00000000001% chance (1e-11). This is a lot of magnitudes higher than the previous difference. You’ll see one every 50 trillion ravenous drops (or 50 thousand million for most of the world). This is so unlikely that it will never happen.
If you had 500k players dropping a ravenous void every single day (which is already extremely unlikely), you would need 100000 days to get a 4LP one. That is over 273 years.
You’ll win the lottery twice in a row before you see one drop.
So yes, you can expect to see a few 2LP ones around. You can even get to see a 3LP one, although this would be extremely rare. There is no way you’ll ever see a 4LP one.
This is fair enough I guess, but at that point it hardly even matters.
Thats just a technicality, it makes no functional difference of whether or not its 3 or 4 lp, 4lp might as well not exist.
My line of logic is more so rooted in one lp rav shouldnt exist because the system was intended for leveling items. With the introduction of trade, 1-2 lp is far to common for what it is.
Rav void should just not have LP at all, hell anything that requires over level 70 shouldnt. They are not leveling items. The fact that they can get LP moves the goal posts on gearing regardless of how realistic it is, which imo is a huge flaw in the system.
it means that generally the end goal for every character ive seen is 3lp in every slot, cause why not, you give up 1 affix on your exalted, and gain all the affixes of the unique, even if you only use 2 of them, buying and using 3lp uniques is easier then getting a good exalted sealed item. and gives you a similar number of affixes or lets you double up on the ones you really need.
People don’t have an issue with 1 or 2LP ravs. Some people just have an issue with 4LP being a theorical possibility but not a real one.
Much like they have an issue with the possibility of a 5xT7 item existing but no real practical one of dropping.
Personally, I see no issue with it. I think it would be much more confusing to explaing to players that ravs are capped at 2LP when every other item is capped at 4, than to explain that 4LP ravs are basically impossible to drop.
Especially because, and this is important in my opinion, as the game keeps adding new stuff, things that were previously impossible become reasonable instead.
With Nemesis, having a triple exalted drop became relatively common, when previously having a double exalted was rare.
When we get new systems, as the game progresses and power creep increases, they will eventually become possible. At some point 4LP ravs might be a common thing and we instead have a different unique that is extremely rare. Or a different type of item that is incredibly rare, like the primordials that were planned.
And 5xT7s might also be common and we’ll have ultra-exalted gear instead to chase.
However, some people really dislike the fact that you currently have a theorically possible item that isn’t possible in practice. They would prefer if it didn’t exist at all. That is what this discussion is usually about and it crops up every now and then.
