I think there’s definitely translation problems, which is fine. My last boss was Austrian & her emails came across very, er, Teutonic (blunt to the point of rudeness to a native English speaker) but when I met her her body language, tone of voice, etc was perfectly reasonable & totally different to what she put in her emails.
Yeah, a potential issue with that is if if someone got a bunch of BiS “tainted” gear & used that to farm up their own awesomely BiS/comparable gear (non-tainted presumably unless I’ve misunderstood, which I probably have) & switch to that to get on the ladder. But I have a feeling that wouldn’t work given what you said.
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To add my own drop to the bucket to address the split within the community of creating a trade/no trade playerbase. Is there not a way to have different drop rates for these 2 groups? And if there is different drop rates is there no way to allow them to play together in multiplayer?
I haven’t been watching beta streams and am not very active in the community so apologies if my understanding of gifting is incorrect.
I assume that players have individual drops and therefore are not competing for dropped loot while playing together. So players A and B kill a boss who then drops 2 sets of loot for each player respectively. After those item are picked up by the appropriate player they can then choose to gift the items obtained to the other.
In this scenario lets also assume that the game has open trading and reduced loot drops for players who opt to trade. If loot is individualized couldn’t player A be using a no trade character while player B is using a trade character? So players A has increased loot drops but can not trade can not gift and player B has reduced loot drops but is able to trade their loot to other players.
A lot of people seem to like the idea of two drop-rates for trade and no trade.
Personally, I feel that if they actually went and did it, a lot of players are going to be unhappy about it. There is something about being a bit too honest in the way that you present the odds. Presenting a drop rates like this really draw you attention to arbitrary those number are in the end.
When there is a single version of the game to reference, you tend to forget of it, but when there are two, with two different drop rates, it is going to be really difficult to ignore.
I feel that there is going to be a sizable portion of the player-base that will see the two options:
play with trade with a X% reduced drop rate
play SSF with a normal drop rate,
To then chose the third option, which is play another game.
With 90 reductions yes, they would feel like shit when it comes to ssf players, but the number here is irrelevant tbh.
What I’ve gathered here is that people who are against trade entirely are not willing to even give 1% of the current drop rate to have some sort of trading other than gifting yet people in this thread are agreeing that the gearing speed is too fast as is.
Something isn’t right here.
People just want to “win” and its might not for the greater good of the game.
I really like the idea of item / character flagging
Flagging does have broad ramifications though. I suspect practically every system in the game would need to understand it. This adds effort to building, maintaining and balancing new and current systems.
Regarding leaderboards, I disagree with excluding traders from leaderboards. That splits the community.
Instead, I believe traders should have the mark shown on the leaderboard and people should be able to filter the board (or the game can show 2 views of the same data).
This way, everyone can compete and know where they stand on the playing field most important to them.
Why should there be a split anyway? Leaderboards are a long term thing and it don’t matter if someone spikes early on leaderboard numbers when the player is beaten by a lot of skilled people in the long run. So ehm… duh?
but what leads you to the impression that these are the same people? i’d be fine with chunky drop rate reduction, although i’m not a strong advocate of trade, as in i wouldn’t rely on it to enjoy the game. in other arpgs i mostly enjoy ssf/gsf no matter how the drop rates are.
I don’t agree. It matters to some people. Certainly I would want to know where I stand compared to people who were on the same footing as me (whether that was trade-based gear acquisition or self-found gear).
This isn’t respectful. I might be able to look past it, but some won’t.
I will add in, I think it is a good idea to consider not allowing traded items to be craftable after trading, but of course would need to be allowed to be crafted before trading. This is the fun of trading away an item you crafted yourself for profit. But if you want a great customized item, you’d have to take advantage of the crafting system and not just buy a “close” one and do a small craft to edit it.
I also propose allowing nearly all gear, from belts to rings to weapons to relics, to be tradable, but consider making idols account locked. That would add a new uniqueness and fun to the game, that you would have to farm for your own idols. I do think that uniques should be tradable, since people could then more easily obtain a full build that way to explore from a build guide.
This doesn’t take into account that you’d trade for the items that make your farm quicker, so you can farm the items you need for your push, and then get a non-tainted arena push with them. This is why ssf is seperate to trade, becuase even fi you farm the items your using, you could still trade for the items you farm to get them, and be more efficient and quicker than someone not trading.
This also speaks to the things people have brought up of no trade, but grouping, even mike talking about it positively. This would ruin the competitive integrity of the game. If you can group as no trade, and theres no ssf, leaderboards are meaningless, because it becomes only about the people who have 3 friends to help them get through content quicker, so they can zoom in a race, or safely get farmed up for hardcore. I.e. you have to be a streamer to do anything. (assuming this would mean no ssf, otherwise you have a million different things covered and the playerbase is too split)
Not all types of leaderboards are long term. Some are races to do something first, ie. D2/POE have leaderboards for first to the level cap. I think POE also has delve depth but no one seems to care about those. POE does have some events with prizes for accomplishing the most.
I think the lack of long term leaderboards in POE actually reduces the feeling of being second class in that game. Before the huge nerfs, Empyrian’s group could juice their maps to ridiculous levels and gain immense amounts of wealth. But they couldn’t turn that wealth into winning a competitive leaderboard so no one cared (other than GGG).
POE seems decently suited for personal goals and quitting when you reach them or get bored. LE Arena
They will certainly separate the MP and Solo leaderboards, as they should. But splitting up the MP leaderboard into sub-leaderboards based on how people traded probably isn’t feasible or desired.
No they wont, that was my biggest issue as a solo competitive D3 player, I couldnt push the ultra high paragons like others in groups, couldnt get high tier keys in early seasons due to group trials, same thing will happen in this game
Unless you mean ‘group arena’ pushes as 4 player compared to ‘this player traded/grouped so they go on their own board’ no it wont work like that, there would be 4 ladders Normal/HC and Solo/SoloHC thats it
So I expect them to have the following online leaderboards for 0.9: Softcore-MP, Softcore-MP-Solo, Hardcore-MP, and Hardcore-MP-Solo as they’ll have a multiplayer ladder and a solo ladder on their servers, each broken into Softcore and Hardcore options.
D3 has never made a separate Solo Self Found ladder as much as people have asked, but LE will have it. D3 also has infinite paragons and massive botting problems so leaderboard chasing is only for those playing 12 hours a day or for those willing to play hardcore where the botters tend to avoid.
The whole point of the “taint” idea is to solve this by making the “this item was traded” flag contagious to every item that drops, so long as you or any party member is using a tainted item. So it isn’t possible to farm up clean items with items that were acquired through trade.
