I can get a level 100 character and do 40/40 challenges in PoE in less than 500 hours. My second character in Sanctum hit 100 in under 100 hours playing. Hardly anyone devotes this kind of time for pitiful progression anymore - theres people doing 400 corruption on the test realm currently
Expecting someone to spend approx $15,000+ of their time for one decent shield is ridiculous
Anyone screaming DROP RATE R FINE. Forgets they have played LE for over 2 years on a standard league with no forced wipes. EHG want to take a seasonal approach, not please 50 year old men who want the remaining twilight years of their life to grind into senility
Disagree. Finding a rare global drop that can drop anywhere and does feel amazing. Target farming a boss for a single unique you KNOW can and only does drop from this encounter is just a relief when it does so you can move on, nothing good about this. its like being chosen by an operator after being on hold for an hour finally I can move on with my life
If someone gets 20 times the items I chase for in a tenth of the time I feel screwed over and not unlucky. Different people are surely made up different and shrug this of but to me it feels as it does.
I’m not opposed to the idea of gifting but I really think it should be run like the World of Warcraft dungeon loot system. Gear gets soulbound on a per group basis so anyone in your group gets rights to trade the loot to each other within a 2 hour window, but no one else. That type of system cuts down a lot on the wiggle room timer based free trade or trading with people on your friend list leaves open.
Friend is a nebulous term when you consider it in terms of a trading system. If friend is defined as anyone on your friend list then gifting is just open trading with more steps. There would be nothing stopping independent communities curated on discord, reddit, etc… from coordinating in a way where 3rd party trade would be established and free flowing trade brings all the issues of supported free trade. Perhaps even more problematic as it would be managed by third parties.
Timers can cut down on this behavior and helps to set a general floor for items before they bottom out due to quick shelf lives, but I don’t think it does enough to completely curtail a third party initiative looking to abuse gifting. To put timers in perspective I’ll use example of a game I played years ago known as Anarchy Online. There were specific events that dropped rare stat boosting items when killing certain mobs. The items were bind on pick up and no one but you and your team members could loot the mob. The unlooted corpse itself had about a 2 hour shelf life before all loot disappeared.
Even with all these restrictions I would kill these mobs, set up an alt in a major city to advertise the parts ( you could dual log in this game without it being against TOS), and sell them to “team” members hand over fist. I made so much in-game money from this practice that I hit the currency cap (1 billion credits). This was as a 1 person operation and a 2 hour shelf life. Imagine what a group of coordinated people could pull off with any reasonable time table.
This will happen with gifting as well because people with enough money buy carries until they have what they want. The only way to make trade uncheeseable is to remove trade in every way shape and form and while you are at it multiplayer too because there might always be some ways for dupes and other bad stuff to happen with unwanted sideeffects from patching.
Then again I don’t care about People who use RMT as long as I’m able to kick them from my server whenever I want and at best to report them and get them removed.
Gifting is equaly bad then trading because for static groups it’s free trade at the end of the day and we are already at a point where droprates/drop mechanics for groups are looked at.
I think the D3 approach is okay… just throw so many gear at people noone even wants to RMT or trade ingame because everything is there 12 times anyway. Trading and everything that comes with it is a hard thing to balance and already gifting is on the same slippery slope.
The WoW dungeon loot rule set I mention before that paragraph actually makes RMTing for items almost impossible. You would be paying for the chance at a drop which is a shakey enough proposition for most buyers to kill off any real money making potential. There’s also a need to be online and the potential of having to participate in said content when grouped to even get to the loot in the first place.
People will certainly try to market some type of carry system for drops regardless of trading or gifting, but the with proper systems in place this type of behavior can have its impact reduced to almost a non-factor.
As far as static groups go. One static group group freely trading is no where near as impactful or an entire player base freely trading. We are talking a loot multiplier of 4-6 (whatever the group cap will be) vs an entire players base of thousands upon thousands. Even then gifting could be policed much easier than true free trade. For example you could set gifts to one item per zone, echo, boss fight, etc.
Currently LE is pretty well positioned with is loot acquisition. It has a slew of uniques that are either fairly easy to acquire via target farming or have stop gap uniques that enable a lower power version of the builds they serve until you get your chase item. The dungeon system serves as not only a new way to introduce content into the game, but different avenues for loot acquisition. With a little more work I feel there could be a decent loot density akin to D3 and a fairly robust amount of target farming content akin to Grim Dawn that could leave most of the player base satisfied without the need for trade.
LoL do you know how many rmt carry groups that are out there in WoW? There isn’t anything shakey and it’s the easiest thing you can get and it’s dirt cheap in WoW. There are tos of groups that offer M+ and Raid carries if you google for it and I know a group of people who make a fortune with carries and even more money when people want a carry and specific items. If somones wallet is big enough there are a ton of ways to abuse every coop game.
So small scale free trade is okay? How many static groups make a difference? To me this sounds like you have no problem with fiendgroup trading because for most people that’s a small scale group.
Making gifting even worse would be a very bad joke to pull of.
It’s a rng system so no item is easy to aquire just the chances are better for some items. Everything comes down to luck if you don’t have D3 drop rates.
Inevitable is easy, there’s no way around it. Trade gives you more access to bases to craft on which doesn’t remove the RNG but does help progress at the same time. That’s why I see trade as the better approach.
For the actual items people would be paying for while grouping in LE it actually would be a shakey proposition. Probability wise you’re taking a serious gamble trying to RMT a chase item drop that may or may not happen. An item you would actually need for the service to be considered fulfilled on the buyers end.
Carrys from WoW are largely different. Most are done for achievements or a as a way to skip ahead on content ( accessing higher keys without following the progression). If they do buy carrys for loot the buyer has a much easier time obtaining something of worth as WoW operates off the iLevel system where most gear is just raw stats. If they do want a specific item they would have would have to pay a ridiculous amount of money just like the theoretical LE RMT buyer. I don’t believe an actual market could be supported on how few of those type of buyers there are.
Gifting does not have to be small scale free trade as I already mentioned. There is also no way to scale it up past the group cap with soulbound grouping rules.
Because the gear is tiered item acquisition for certain items is actually easier. Say you target farm swords. 1 sword is in the easy tier of drops rates and another is the hard tier of drops rates. You will see far more easy tier swords. A large portion of LE uniques are in the easy tier. This means they have a much lower expected hour per acquisition rate than a select few unqiues. We could disagree on acquisition rates but to say that everything comes down to luck feels disingenuous.
Haing carry groups making jokes about the person they carry because he’s on a bad luck streak and already payed 800 bucks for a drop that is unlikely. As I said… if people have big enough wallets they spend 100k on Diablo Imortal so why on earth do you think people don’t throw money out of the window for a chance to get an item in a game?
I don’t know where you are from and the carry group I know carries people for high M+ and raids and mostely for items. I know this group pretty well because I tanked half a year for them untill I get what they did and took my leave. Getting the first hand information how much money people spend on a possible item drop is disgusting.
Yeah but one group is np as you said… what do you think how many static groups will be there and when do you think it will impact LE? Even one good static group can win every race and dominate the leaderboards through loot advantages like no single player can.
rng=random number generator=you need to be lucky to get the right numbers… I don’t know why you feel whatever when someone points out rng is purely luck based when it is by definition… I’m confused.
That’s not quite right, unless the bots are being directed by an ai, they’re being told what to do by a player. What you mean is that some few players have more sway over how the market acts than most. That’s not the same as saying it’s nolonger player directed.
They’ve already made that change in the most recent patch.
That’s just unrestricted trade with extra steps (having to be on a friends list).
Hey Mike, although this isn’t wrong I wanted to clarify something as a person that wants trade. I don’t want a very simple, no RNG, 100% sure way to get the item I want. I rather want my RNG to be useful in the way I want. When I need a very specific item, not only that I need to drop a low drop rate item but also that item needs to be the item that I want. As an example, suppose there are 2 highly sought after boss drops. I need one of those for a build I want to try. I can end up with only getting the one I don’t want due to bad RNG. And if I have no intention to use that one, it is only gonna cause frustration. If there is trade, either of the drops will make me happy, I will get the adrenaline rush even when it is the one I don’t want because it is a valuable item and I can trade it for the other. Hope this makes sense.
or you can just run a couple of monoliths then go and buy that item you want? Would it be ‘adrenaline rush’? Gold drops from everywhere you just play and it is piling up. You don’t do anything special for it. You can run easiest content. There’s no feeling of ‘achievment’ when you just go and buy an item you want. Imo that’s simply boring.
In PoE there’s very rare currency like Divine orb, mirror. That is sought-after and I feel excited when they drop but gold… it is dull
500h worth of gold farming has a very clear and defined way of completing. You feel you aren’t wasting your time grinding away. 500h of a single drop can easily become 1000h with bad RNG or 50h with amazing RNG.
Not trying to get involved in this massive post of craziness going nowhere, was only trying to point out that everyone states people would be selling the 500 hour item for a couple of monolith runs.
This just wouldn’t happen? Maybe a noob might find the 500 hours item in 5 hours and sell it, but then whoever bought it would raise the price to 500 hours of gold.
Just examples… I don’t know of anyone actually stupid enough to sell the 500 hour item for something they can get themselves after a couple of monolith runs.
EDIT: to reply to what you said, I do like that idea. If I farm for 500 hours and I still don’t have it, I can take that 500 hours of gold and go buy it.
This doesn’t make sense though. First of all you are making the assumption that “just run couple monos” will end up with being the same value. Why would it be? Similar with other gold drops, why do you think that people won’t adjust prices of highly sought after items? That doesn’t make sense to me at all. Any way to “farm” that specific item will end up being close in terms of effort because that is how a free market works. If there is a better way to farm, majority will start doing that and balance the market again. So unless I am missing your point, I don’t see an issue there.
Grinding currency doesn’t have the the effect that you are wasting your time. Grinding a rare item that may or may not drop within 500h does. If you need to grind 500h to buy an item, that means you have a clear goal of obtaining it with 100% certainty. BDO does that, you need months of grinding for a single upgrade, but at the end of the day, you know you are getting it and don’t rely on lottery favorable RNG for it.
and then what 's the point in doing higher endgame content? Gold drops from everywhere. Why you even need items? To do Julra t4? But why? You already bought all items that can drop there. You just do low lvl monos non-stop and you are geared in BiS gear. Ok but then what? No incentive to do high difficulty content at all.
because people with enough money buy carries until they have what they want. The only way to make trade uncheeseable is to remove trade in every way shape and form and while you are at it multiplayer too because there might always be some ways for dupes and other bad stuff to happen with unwanted sideeffects from patching.