how can you say there is no pay to win in the game when they literally selling classes for real money thats the definition of pay to win are you dumb?
That is a big jump you took here.
As long as you don’t know details of the classes to be released, if they would be overpowered or whatever … don’t assume this would be a pay to win factor.
Just wait out the details.
You have 0 information on what will be the classes and how well this will do compared to the others. Or if they will hold same balancing standard.
You have no clue, don’t decide already if that will be p2w.
i have all the clues i need in the official post they are selling class for real money thats pay to win no matter how you look at it so its you who got no clue how pay to win works
Something doesn’t includes aggressive and horrible monetization.
You say battle-passes are bad but ultimately all people are losing in those are some cosmetics, it’s not a bad thing, if you want the cosmetics you buy it and if you don’t you skip it. Sure there is a grind associated with it but you can also make grind painless.
The something they need to do is fix the reasons people stop playing after a week and make cosmetics actually desirable to buy. Do these 2 things and they are very, very profitable. EHG kept sinking their heads in the sand when they were told what the problems were and only very recently started to listen to the cosmetic issues but not the more important game issues.
Krafton, being the genius they are like every other investor that understands 0 about games and gamers and think games are the same thing as stock markets did the thing they do best, let’s add aggressive monetization because that works. They are about to sink millions like all other cases.
EHG put themselves in the no win situation while at the same time having the knowledge of what they need to do in order to get out of it and while they keep refusing to acknowledge the issues they will remain in the no win situation especially with aggressive monetization which will only make them go further and further into the game ending.
Understand that EHG doesn’t need fanboys. Fanboys who only excuse everything that they do will not help them because at the end of the day, you are few, you don’t keep the game alive with what you spend on it, after all it wasn’t enough even when everyone else was spending. The only thing that will help them is people giving them a healthy doze of reality. Fix the problems that make people leave after playing for a week. Make cosmetics that look good, bare minimum the quality need to be on par with PoE or diablo. These 2 things alone are the only realistic solution to save LE, nothing else.
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It is kinda in the name is it not?
Pay to win… meaning you pay money to get to the “win” condition faster/easier/etc.
Imagine this new class not being able to kill the hardest boss in the game compared to the existing classes now.
That means you pay to lose.
Like I said, You have no clue what this class entails?
Pay to win would be: You pay money to get the best item in game instantaneously.
These classes: you have 0 clue on what they are or will be.
To be fair, the only advantage anywhere would be the ladder, which offers nothing unique so there really isn’t anything to win. But all the same if I didn’t have access to say thicket of blinding light this season, the most brain-dead legendary ever made, even if I didn’t plan on using it I’d be annoyed.0
you are clueless if you think a paid class wont be by default more OP than any other class thats called marketing
I honestly hate battle passes as a whole. What a massive scam, paying money into something that if you don’t play excessively you don’t get the things you actually paid for. If I pay for something just give it to me, don’t tie my rewards to a carrot.
Dunno if it was a typo or not… but thanks, made my day 
It’s the norm.
Entitlement is asking for things you have no inherent right to. If you make a deal you have the right to receive your end of the bargain simply. That’s universal. The foundation of the overall societal contract, whatever shape it ultimately takes.
Which roadmap? I see no roadmap, I see a picture telling us ‘we actually work on the game… or at least tell you so!’, it’s really not more
Doesn’t matter.
Functional payments are inherently P2W, unless EHG is even more incompetent business-wise then they’ve already proven they are.
It’s either usable, which makes it better then several current classes because of awful balance… hence already a upside comparably for a portion of the content. And if not then it’s a waste of money as unless you’re one of the very very few people which don’t care about any form of results it’s going to feel awful.
Depends if they’re time limited or not.
If so it creates FOMO, FOMO is a major predatory aspect to exchange fun for urgency instead. Not something I wanna see in a product which I use for entertainment.
But if not time-limited it’s absolutely a fine option.
So, when does that become the case?
If your fav class is the worst class in the game but the paid one is stomachable instead to play? Is that P2W?
I would argue yes.
Hence all functional payments which provide clear game upsides are some form of at least small P2W aspects. Be it stashes in PoE, classes in LE, boosts or pets or whatever else is there.
Personal social comparison to others is a massive and very important aspect which we always wanna deny but the majority has.
If streamer fares well and you watch him, but you are 90% slower… suddenly the fun you had feels empty likely and you wanna get closer to that state you see.
So yes, even without direct interaction it’s a part… and that’s why balance is so important to uphold in any game.
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I don’t love them but you can make the grind painless, like something you get in a week or two even if you only put like 3 hours a day into it.
It depends on how it’s made and also the point of a battle-pass is that you are exchanging your time for a much cheaper cosmetic pack. Granted another solution could be a battle-pass for X value or pay for the stuff in it for Y value and skip the grind but then you are paying like you’d pay any cosmetics.
Kulze - Yes, I forgot about the FOMO issue you are totally correct. I suppose that can be fixed with next season you just have that available as a pack for a non grind cost.
Yeah, then that’s fine. Like the Helldivers 2 packs basically. Just access being bought and progress then in-game achieved as you play. That’s a fine system.
Just not the timed aspect and I’m all dandy there 
Yea I agree that leaderboards are very important to some people and that’s why metas become the entire focus. Selling classes will probably have that in mind too.
As a matter of perspective though I don’t find the “winning” aspect of dlc characters to be selling point for me, or the thing that wants me up in arms about it, for me personally it’s the way people just dismiss the current balance state of the game with “well every game has balance issues”. Yes they do, and those also get addressed. So far I’ve seen nothing but nerfs to metas and no real buffs. Yes the minion stuff could be seen as such but it was more of a rebalancing than a fix, the necro is still basically hooped.
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I understand a compromise like that, but I still feel icky about “what if I don’t finish it in time”, and I probably wouldn’t want to pay for either.
The only good way I can see a battle pass working for me is if you purchase it and it doesn’t just go away after the season or whatever. Let me play it like a game, not a job with deadlines. At which point I just go back to if there’s no rush why not just give it to me now.
Hmm. Unsure how I feel about the paid class idea…
I mean, Blizzard’s/Diablo’s thing has been pay for the expansion get a free class.
LE’s thing may be free expansion, pay for the class.
(If the idea is only to release these paradox classes with major expansions/updates).
The Spiritborn at the launch of Vessel of Hatred was by far the strongest class (arguably still is) but I do not recall an outcry of P2W.
Even POE’s model seems to be paying for the stash tab that coincides with the league mechanic.
Although this is definitely not P2W at all, rather paying for convenience.
I’m still leaning that it feels better to pay for expansion, rather than the class.
But I guess we will need to see how this rolls out.
I said in a previous post that LE, to me, is the game I’d been dreaming of in the ARPG genre.
I plan to continue to support them wholeheartedly, but am definitely feeling cautious about this, especially since the “roadmap” is quite lackluster after all that lead time and build up.
They introduce p2w and this is what you say? Avoid doing what the best company in the arpg genre is doing?
Not necessarily related but for my own personal amusement, this thread is a smorgasbord for the 5 stages of grief.
Keep in mind acceptance doesn’t necessarily mean you accept you will be paying, but that it is out of your hands and you can move on.
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I’m a big fan of the game and I’m not against paid content.
That being said I think you’re making mistakes here. I would much prefer to pay for expansion than for a class, I also think it’s a more sustainable model for you than classes.
I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but the real thing I think you should add for monetization is “battle pass”.
why battle pass?
Because as you said, you need money, I doubt you can sell a real new class every season, same thing with expansion, but you can do it with a battle pass. What’s more it can give players achievements they can strive for every season, not everyone likes to set those achievements for themselves, I try to play with my GF and she tends to drop the season pretty early as she doesn’t really have anything to strive for(her words not mine). While when we play Diablo 4(the only other ARPG we play together) she enjoys the season much more due to the “season journey” they have.
It’s also a way to not make the game Pay2Win, just add some cosmetics there and do a reasonable price(you know what’s reasonable for you)
Another thing is, are you serious with this “road map”? really? I could have told you this road map last week and would only be wrong about thinking the expansion would be after season 6 and not 5. That’s not a road map that’s some crap. It tells us nothing, it can be summarized in one sentence: “the expansion will come after season 5”.
I would say that for myself as long as the game is still fun I’ll probably buy an expansion, class, battle pass, supporter packs and anything I find with value(probably will buy twice as one will be for the GF).
I really hope you’ll prove the worth of the expansion and the class(without the class being P2W) and that you’ll reconsider the payed classes in the future as I don’t think it’s a good idea,
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Devs: make any announcement
ARPG “fans”: NOOOO THE WORLD IS ENDING. THIS IS TERRIBLE AND YOU ARE ALL IDIOTS.
Devs: But, we haven’t actually given any details yet, why would you leap to that conclusion?
APRG “fans”: **** YOU
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Depends if they’re time limited or not.
If so it creates FOMO, FOMO is a major predatory aspect to exchange fun for urgency instead. Not something I wanna see in a product which I use for entertainment.
But if not time-limited it’s absolutely a fine option.
Mind if I ask if you’re fine with the diablo 4 model? a battle pass which you need to grind for(usually I finish it within 2 weeks time while working full time job). But you also have the option to pay more to get everything from the start.
Is that acceptable? or does that also create FOMO for you? (I ask about you as I don’t feel the FOMO when the battle pass doesn’t require me to invest too much time into it)
Maybe I’m just too used to battle passes from DOTA, gatcha games, diablo 4, ect.
After providing all the post responses here so far to ChatGPT and asking it to provide what the overall sentiment of the comments are., this was the analysis:
The overall sentiment from the community responses is strongly negative. This isn’t mixed, and it isn’t leaning. It’s overwhelmingly negative, with only a handful of neutral or positive voices. Why the sentiment is negative:
- Paid classes are the core trigger.
- Many feel LE is not in a state that justifies monetized gameplay content.
- The roadmap itself is seen as weak.
- Some distrust toward Krafton’s involvement.